Ending God's Tax Exempt Status

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Except for the fact that those semantics also apply to other nonprofit organizations who seek to grow.

And I stated that if there was a year in which they wanted to apply for a waiver for that year to do that, at the expense of their services, then they could do so.
But, not growth being their sole purpose, that is profit.

[lumberjim]

yeah, sure. so this thread is about wanting to remove the churchs' tax exempt status. unless you also do it to the rest of the non profits, it aint right. 195 posts about that? i was only reading the drama.

[dar512]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

the argument was made, however that the excess income (remainder after expenses are met) that is used for expansion of the church is simply profit in sheep's clothing. semantics.

There is an implicit assumption in there that the church benefits monetarily by having a larger congregation. That may be true in some cases, but I don't believe it is true generally. And it certainly isn't true at the church where I go.

There is a certain economy of scale in that no one family is overly burdened when the church gets to the size we are. However, there is certainly no motivation to be larger for size sake. More families mean more masses which means we need more priests, larger school etc.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by dar512

There is an implicit assumption in there that the church benefits monetarily by having a larger congregation. That may be true in some cases, but I don't believe it is true generally. And it certainly isn't true at the church where I go.

a catholic church? are you kidding, dar? certainly THE Catholic Church is motivated to increase the flock, isn't it?

and rage....you can't seriously believe that a church's ONLY motive for income is growth.... It makes sense that they should grow to servie their parisioners, but they spend their money providing for those in need. Not all religions are evil.

bad apples, for sure....but as a whole? be real.

[dar512]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

a catholic church? are you kidding, dar? certainly THE Catholic Church is motivated to increase the flock, isn't it?

Well, hey. We're the Catholic church. Everyone already knows who we are, so how much do we really need to spend on PR?

There may be some effort made at the diocese level, but we don't send out door ringers. We try to make people feel welcome when they visit and there's a certain level of effort made to keep teens in the flock. But that's about it.

Not that I'm saying the Catholic church is perfect. Look how Syc got treated in StL.

[lumberjim]

So, no preference about large families or contraception, then? was i thinking of some other church?

Originally Posted by lumberjim

a catholic church? are you kidding, dar? certainly THE Catholic Church is motivated to increase the flock, isn't it?

and rage....you can't seriously believe that a church's ONLY motive for income is growth.... It makes sense that they should grow to servie their parisioners, but they spend their money providing for those in need. Not all religions are evil.

bad apples, for sure....but as a whole? be real.

I did not say that.
I said they do not qualify as a charity based on the fact that their funds are spent on growth alone or to a VAST majority.
I don't believe in evil.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

And I stated that if there was a year in which they wanted to apply for a waiver for that year to do that, at the expense of their services, then they could do so.
But, not growth being their sole purpose, that is profit.

ORLY?

[dar512]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

So, no preference about large families or contraception, then? was i thinking of some other church?

Ah. I wasn't thinking about increasing the flock in that way.

No to the first and yes, but to the latter.

There is no pressure at all to have large families. Most folks in the area have two or three. That's not to say we don't have any large families. But no pressure to do so.

As to the other - globally, there is a strict prohibition against contraception. Locally, it's more of a don't ask don't tell sort of thing. Once you're in the church and married, no one is going to ask if you're on the pill or whatnot. The question only gets asked when going through the marriage preparation. And even then my experience is that most priests ask something along the lines of "If you are blessed with children, will you receive them gladly".

*shrug* No organization run by mortal man is perfect.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

ah, I'm being cute here....my real point was that IMO, religious orginizations (religions) exist in the first place because they are profitable. if there was no money/power/security in them, they would be practiced privately in peoples homes only.

Not all are this way: see church with no name.

(Incidentally, my husband grew up in this sect and his family is still part of it. I have never been to a "meeting", myself. I am just posting this to point out that there are sects of religion that do meet in homes, only and have no collection or tithing.)

Originally Posted by lumberjim

ORLY?

True, poorly chosen wording, however more than once I stated churches do some charity, but only as a fraction of their activities.

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by case

Incidentally, my husband grew up in this sect and his family is still part of it. I have never been to a "meeting", myself. I am just posting this to point out that there are sects of religion that do meet in homes, only and have no collection or tithing.

COTWP has not yet started accepting donations...though maybe we should.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by case

Not all are this way: see church with no name.

(Incidentally, my husband grew up in this sect and his family is still part of it. I have never been to a "meeting", myself. I am just posting this to point out that there are sects of religion that do meet in homes, only and have no collection or tithing.)

Like Quakers. yeah..I get that. these religions tend to be spun off of the originating religion, though, no? the origin of religion is a whole new debate though.

[dar512]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

True, poorly chosen wording, however more than once I stated churches do some charity, but only as a fraction of their activities.

I also belong to the CCFA (Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America). They do no charity work and yet they are a non-profit.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

Like Quakers. yeah..I get that. these religions tend to be spun off of the originating religion, though, no? the origin of religion is a whole new debate though.

What original religion? Catholic? Jesus? I know...it is a whole new debate, but I want to understand what you mean by that.