Middle East erupts

[Trilby]

Solution:

Rock the Casbah - the Clash

Only solution.

A cultural war. I bet we win.

PS-- I bet more than me alone skips tw's posts. No one prolly has the balls to admit it though.

[Undertoad]

I don't care what you think I write, because you routinely misinterpret and misstate what I write. A few times you've even boldly assumed what I've written and took sides against it -- when I didn't write anything at all.

A few times, I wrote "A" and you assumed I wrote "B", and took positions against it in favor of "A".

And I'm not here to convince you, because you're not here to be convinced or to discuss things honestly and openly.

Most of the time you're a wedge to me, a means to move the conversation around.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I don't care what you think I write, because you routinely misinterpret and misstate what I write.

It's called indentifying the spin - misdirected reality - and confronting it with facts. One reality, UT, is your blind support for Israel. Your support for Lebanon could not condemn Israel for attacking innocet Lebanese civilians - even in Tripoli - because that would accurately identify Israel as the aggressor. It is correct to blame Israel as the aggressor. And it would demonstrate a pro-Lebanon attitude. You did not do that. That is reality - for others here to judge.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Brianna

PS-- I bet more than me alone skips tw's posts. No one prolly has the balls to admit it though.

I skip them most of the time. I think anybody who posts here at all has to, just on a time-consumed basis.

I still think the "wonton acceleration" post was funny, though...especially coming from somebody who's such a pretentiously stuffy Cassandra de le Noir all the time.

[9th Engineer]

Listen to yourself tw, you constantly blame people for 'spin' anytime a position is taken other than that where everyone is equally to blame. You say that we cannot acknowledge acts of aggression on the part of Israel, which we usually do, because of our 'need' to see Israel as blameless (which is not what anyone here has been saying). However, look carefully at what you are saying:

...because that would accurately identify Israel as the aggressor. It is correct to blame Israel as the aggressor. And it would demonstrate a pro-Lebanon attitude. You did not do that. That is reality - for others here to judge.

You are simply taking the stance exactly opposite to what you blame us of saying. You see Israel as the unilateral aggressor, the aggressor, not an aggressor. You then make the single biggest mistake, you state your opionion and call it the reality. Throw in an assortment of personal attacks and a few cliches like 'mental midget extremests' and you have a tw post.

I skip most of them, although they provide a bit of entertainment. Kind of like X-Files, except 'I want to believe' turns into 'I'm right your stupid'.

[Undertoad]

I'm really happy to let others judge what I write. All I ask is that they read it first.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

I skip them most of the time. I think anybody who posts here at all has to, just on a time-consumed basis.

I tend to skip them because I enjoy the discussion here and posts that sound like lecturing while not inviting input or opinion don't serve a point.

You know, someone ought to ask the same question in a poll...

...no, wait, that'd be mean.

[Hippikos]

I skip them most of the time. I think anybody who posts here at all has to, just on a time-consumed basis.

From what I've read here from tw is a little pedantic, but he hits the nail firmly on the head most of the time.

[DanaC]

Brianna. Do a quick head count of how many people have died in Israel to arab attacks ( including all those dead to palestinian suicide bombs) and then do a quick count on the death toll in the Lebanon and Palestine in the same period, then tell me the Arabs are good at playing victim.

Israel is illegally occupying someone else's country. It is recognised by the United Nations as being engaged in an illegal occupation. Goliath is camped out in David's back yard and the world is feeling sorry for Goliath.

That last post didn't sound like me? Well, it was. This issue is one I feel very strongly about. It's also a subject I know quite a bit about. I have friends who make regular trips of months or years at a time, to Gaza. I have letters and videos brought back by them. I know the names of people they've lost. I know what they have borne witness to (in the name of peace, they are a Christian Mission).

Like I said, through the looking glass, straight through the rabbit hole, turn left and watch out for cluster bombs. The world's turned upside down. The victims are held to full account and the ones with the biggest guns get to wail their losses.

And how do we justify this? That some voices in the Arab world decry the presence of a Jewish state. Well. I know in the past the Israelis had to fight for their survival, but those days are long gone. They are now the power and the voices crying for their destruction are really spouting the rhetoric of the defeated. It is a willful misunderstanding of that fact which allows the Israeli state to unleash such unrestrained and bloody slaughter on those enemies.

This is an unevan struggle. Even with a war on two fronts they are a lion swatting at mice. With each night of rockets the Hezbolla attacks kill or maim a few unlucky souls. Meanwhile Israel destroys utterly any semblance of civilisation amongst the Lebanese in order to strike at Hezbolla, even though most of the casualties have nothing to do with Hezbolla.

And before people point at hezbollah and say,that they are drawing israeli
fire upon the civilians and that makes them guilty of war crimes, Israel has a choice as to whether to launch such a devastating response.

They could have considered other responses. For instance they could have done a prison exchange as Hezbollah wanted and as has been done in the past.

On a side note: do you know how many Arab women and children the Israelis hold in their jails these days? Betyou don't. These of course being jails under a system in which torture is legal.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Brianna. Do a quick head count of how many people have died in Israel to arab attacks ( including all those dead to palestinian suicide bombs) and then do a quick count on the death toll in the Lebanon and Palestine in the same period, then tell me the Arabs are good at playing victim.

Considering that when they "play" victim they don't give a rat's ass about the body count, as long as it advances their cause?

They're good at it.

After all, it worked on you, didn't it?

[DanaC]

And the Israelis do give a rats ass about body count? They certainly don't make much of an effort to minimise civilian deaths. Given that they're supposed to be the civilised one in this war.

So basically Maggie what you are saying is that its the arabs own fault that their death toll is so high? and that theyve willingly allowed many of their people to be brutally slaughtered just to fool the likes of me?

Wasn't anything to do with any of that that made me see the injustices of that region. It was something much smaller and far removed from Hamas or Hezbollah fighters. A tiny incident, an instance amongst many in an ordinary daily life.

The looking glass logic is truly in effect here. Just as it is when we look at Iraq. An American president who cannot conscience the murder of feotuses to save lives but will happily preside over an initial assault on Baghdad that took nigh on 30,000 civilian lives.

We make up our morality on the fly. We twist it to suit our agendas and to fit the faces of our friends.

[Hippikos]

Body count:

Israel: 43 civillian, 112 soldiers
Lebanon 1043, mostly civillian (or actors?)

[JayMcGee]

I think you'll find they're mostly actors, hippy K..... in the biggest snuff movie ever made....


You look at the news... this buliding down, that one a pile of rubble...

but there's dead people in that oh so surgically struck wreckage....

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Tw invariably supports antidemocracies, and downs democracies -- we all know that. Draw your own conclusions about whether this man is worth the powder to blow his nose.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Jebediah

Just for the sake of making a good argument UG, if tw is so wrong you should be able to debunk him easier without insinuating anything about communism whatsoever.

Jeb, the short answer is that aside from his having the kind of emotionally immature personality the Left attracts -- I've seen it elsewhere -- the man's communism is the fundamental cause of him being wrong. I insinuate nothing: j'accuse.