Saddam to Swing

[Aliantha]

Els...the comparison between Iraq and Afghanistan has been made before. They're both land masses which were forced to become nations by western influences, and yet have been ruled by tribes for thousands of years. There will never be peace between these tribes until tribal cultures have been destroyed. Good or bad? Any anthropologist will tell you bad, and so will anyone who values cultural diversity. On the other hand, it'd certainly stop a lot of people being killed if these countries were homogenised like the rest of the western world huh?

[richlevy]

I saw the video of the moments before the hanging. Saddam seemed calm and appeared to be asking questions of his executioners.

I can think of a lot of politicians who would have been wetting themselves in a similar situation. People in this country are conditioned by the media to believe that all evil bastards are cowards. This is a dangerous mistake when fighting guys like the Waffen SS, Khmer Rouge, and various insurgent groups. In a situation where both sides feel that they have divine guidance it can be downright stupid.

I hope this moment was worth 300 billion dollars and tens of thousands of lives.

[Bullitt]

Cell phone video of the execution.. it will probably be removed soon so if you have the stomach watch it now.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...74199652195562

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I don't care what America's interests are. In this case I speak as a earthling and a human. I'm against the death penalty. But there are some things I'm even more against.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Anfal_Campaign

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_shredder

I get it, he killed people... so we want to be just like him!
Makes perfect sense.

[Hypnotic88]

Saddam Execution Part 1 - The Preparation

Saddam Execution Part 1 - The Preparation

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Saddam Execution Part 2 - The Hanging

Do NOT watch this video if you are offended by this material. This is the REAL hanging video and contains graphic footage!

Saddam Execution Part 2 - The Hanging

[xoxoxoBruce]

Welcome to the Cellar, Hypnotic88. Another Aussie, huh?
Thanks for the link but Bullitt beat you to it.

OK, the lead in video is much better quality but the execution is the same cell phone video as Bullitt's link

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I get it, he killed people... so we want to be just like him!
Makes perfect sense.

Austin Bay : "The next to last thing Saddam ever expected was a hangman’s noose. The last thing he expected, of course, was a fair trial."

With Saddam’s execution the myth of the Strong Man takes another major hit. We should all be thankful. The Arab Strong Man, the Serb Strong Man, the Albanian Strong Man, the Somalia Strong Man, the Soviet Strong Man, the fill-in-the-blank Strong Man — the thugs in charge claim that obedience and submission lead to ideological or ethnic or nationalist or tribal or fill-in-the-blank victory. It’s a scam, of course, a scam to obtain and maintain their own power. Ultimately, the tyrant’s show is narcissicism empowered by ruthlessness and the secret police. Saddam’s comment on his way to the gallows is indicative: “On the way to the gallows, according to Ali, “Saddam said, ‘Iraq without me is nothing.’” (From Newsweek’s article which interviewed the videographer who filmed Saddam’s execution.)

The Strong Man expects to die in one of two ways — with a nine millimeter ballot (ie, assassination) — or old age. That has certainly been the case in the Middle East. A public, legal trial followed by court-sentenced execution? That isn’t going to happen unless…unless a democracy replaces a tyranny. This is astonishing news — history altering news. For centuries the terrible yin-yang of tyrant and terrorist has trapped the Middle East. In 2003 the US-led coalition began the difficult but worthy effort of breaking that tyrant’s and terrorist’s trap, and offering another choice in the politically dysfunctional Arab Muslim Middle East.


Saddam’s demise serves as object lesson and example. In late 2003 every Middle Eastern autocrat saw the haggard Saddam pulled from the hole; now they’ve seen him hung. The larger message: To avoid Saddams fate means political liberalization. The message extends beyond the Arab Muslim Middle East. Iran’s mullahs see it. At some reptilian level, destructive despots like Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe also understand it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I was surprised by this execution.... I thought they would go through the other charges first.
So, naturally I wonder why?

Maybe, like Griff said, they're afraid he would be freed, if the shit hits the fan.

But, I wonder if this quick execution, was to appease the Mullahs, on both sides, that were worried about a secular faction being in the power mix for a coalition government?

This pretty much guarantees the government will be dominated by the two Muslim factions and, in my opinion, will drive the Kurds toward independence. But I could be way off base....again.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I was surprised by this execution.... I thought they would go through the other charges first.

Anything embarassing to his American supporters in the other charges?

[yesman065]

history altering... offering another choice... message extends beyond the Middle East... We should all be thankful... the US-led coalition began the difficult but worthy effort of breaking that tyrant’s and terrorist’s trap, and offering another choice...

Mission accomplished??? Or rather point made? At the very least, a start, a very good start.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Radar

The death of Saddam does absolutely nothing to legitimize this cluster fuck of an illegitimate, unconstitutional, unwarranted, and idiotic war. Saddam was never a danger to America, but George W. Bush is.

Wrong on all counts, Paul. It's quite constitutional, as the Constitution contains not a word against a President fighting a war without Congressional declaration, as does the hundred-forty-plus historical precedents of the Prez sending the troops in. No one has ever breathed a word of indictment against such action, and it is unlikely ever to start, flexibility in foreign policy being handier than bondage, and the general run of America's enemies aren't exactly libertarians anyway.

For starters, stop calling a campaign within a general war a war of itself. That is intellectually lazy, technically inaccurate (and we all know how you loathe inaccuracy, right?), and a propaganda trope of the anti-American, antipatriot, defeat America now lobby. Not a crew you'd want to associate with if you have any self respect [insert Walt Kelly cowbirds pic here]. Surely you think you have more self respect than I do, Paul! Act, then, like it.

The whelming of an ultra-anti-libertarian creature such as the dictator Saddam is by definition warranted, and moral, and is likely also to be wise. This, Paul, is why I consider my views more libertarian, in the real way, than yours.

He was most particularly a danger to our friends in the region, and in that region, friends are what we want, no? We should not be leaving our friends, however iffy they be, in the lurch. This is what costs us political capital, and I think this not merely profligate, but unconscionable. That we hit Saddam now, instead of waiting for the guy to enlarge into an extra-big threat comparable in percentage of world economy to Hitler's Germany, is simply wisdom. That it's wisdom you can't see isn't a deficiency on my part, but more a demonstration of your inflexible thinking, already pretty well shown in these pages.

At bottom, Paul, W thinks more like you than you'd acknowledge, as did Reagan, also not acknowledged. He does, however, have the responsibility of prosecuting a general war, thrust upon us by bigots who are mad at about two thirds of humanity for not being their brand of Muslim, and at which prosecution I fear our political party would prove miserably incompetent. For the time being.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Griff, was it not Kissinger that said of Saddam's Iraq and Khoumeini's Iran that it was a pity they couldn't both lose?

But a pretty good second best was the weakening of the mullahs' Iran. Only nowadays have they started making mischief up to their onetime potential, nearly three decades later.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

He was most particularly a danger to our friends in the region, and in that region, friends are what we want, no?

Now that is some impressive irony right there.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by ubrane guerrilla

thrust upon us by bigots who are mad at about two thirds of humanity for not being their brand of Muslim

No, not every Muslim in the Middle Eastern region is obsessed about the spread of Islam. The spread of Islam is less prevelant in the Qur'an than it is in The Bible for Christianity. Stop puting all the blame on someone who you have no understanding of.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

No, not every Muslim in the Middle Eastern region is obsessed about the spread of Islam. The spread of Islam is less prevalent in the Qur'an than it is in The Bible for Christianity. Stop put[t]ing all the blame on someone who you have no understanding of.

You seem to have imagined that I've said every Muslim is at least a bigot-in-waiting.

Show I've said that, if you please, or withdraw it and sit down. Think more carefully next time.

I'm putting all the blame on the ones I do understand sufficiently well, thank you. Fundamentally, what we have is a war against the bigots. Just as few Christians resemble the Fred Phelpses of the world, few Muslims resemble the al-Zarqawis.

The matter is aggravated by a massive, society-wide Muslim inferiority complex with respect to European and American drive, success, and our general worldwide clout. This drives the hysterical response to Danish cartoons, for just one instance of what will doubtless become a whole train of them.