View on the recent Gaza/Israel stikes - Page 13

TheMercenary · 01-31-2009, 02:34 PM

There is very little that anyone can say positive about Hamas.

TheMercenary · 02-01-2009, 09:28 AM

Look at it this way, at least under Saddam you could play soccer in the olympics for his brother and have no worries.

And let's no forget about thos pesky Kurds.

TheMercenary · 02-01-2009, 09:41 AM

Hamas attempts to reconcile. I am not sure this is going to help. But it does sound like a similar tactic of getting the Israeli's hit them with a hammer again and gain sympathy from the international press.

Gaza Militants Launch Rockets Into Israel

FEBRUARY 1, 2009, 7:49 A.M. ET

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123348818069836725.html

TheMercenary · 02-01-2009, 04:48 PM

You have forgotten where Hamas gets its support, Iran. Where do you think all that cash they have been handing out comes from.

piercehawkeye45 · 02-02-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

You have forgotten where Hamas gets its support, Iran. Where do you think all that cash they have been handing out comes from.

How did I forget that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Because we have very little international interest in those places. Same reason we are not in Darfur. We learned our lesson in Somalia. Hell, even the Europeans can't police their own backyard. Why did we go into Bosnia? You have to pick and choose. You are right, I totally agree, we cannot and should not go in and police the world. Nor should we lay our lives down for these places that are just total shit. But don't turn around and ask us why we will not come and help anymore, because hopefully those days are over. Countries want us to help only when it is their own self interest. Hey, that sounds just like the US.

Completely agree. If a country is ready to become a democracy, they can do it themselves.

TheMercenary · 02-02-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

How did I forget that?

Because it is a fact completely ignored in this situation. Not only ignored, it is down right denied. The fact that Iran is the fuel of the fire needs to be repeated hourly.

Aliantha · 02-01-2009, 10:28 PM

I think you only got to 9 on the condescending meter there UG. Have another go and see if you can do better. lol

Seriously though, sugarpop has a good point, and unlike yourself, I happen to agree that it's not the US's job to 'police' the world.

It's rather sad that in some conflicts the US has chosen to inject themselves, yet in others they choose not to. I wonder what they criteria is for the US to stand up for democracy and shout/shoot down genocide and so called oligarchies? Would you care to tell me why the US didn't intervene in Rwanda and continues not to depose Mugabe? Surely those genocides are equal to anything Hussein ever committed?

TheMercenary · 02-02-2009, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

It's rather sad that in some conflicts the US has chosen to inject themselves, yet in others they choose not to. I wonder what they criteria is for the US to stand up for democracy and shout/shoot down genocide and so called oligarchies? Would you care to tell me why the US didn't intervene in Rwanda and continues not to depose Mugabe? Surely those genocides are equal to anything Hussein ever committed?

Because we have very little international interest in those places. Same reason we are not in Darfur. We learned our lesson in Somalia. Hell, even the Europeans can't police their own backyard. Why did we go into Bosnia? You have to pick and choose. You are right, I totally agree, we cannot and should not go in and police the world. Nor should we lay our lives down for these places that are just total shit. But don't turn around and ask us why we will not come and help anymore, because hopefully those days are over. Countries want us to help only when it is their own self interest. Hey, that sounds just like the US.

sugarpop · 02-02-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I think you only got to 9 on the condescending meter there UG. Have another go and see if you can do better. lol

Seriously though, sugarpop has a good point, and unlike yourself, I happen to agree that it's not the US's job to 'police' the world.

It's rather sad that in some conflicts the US has chosen to inject themselves, yet in others they choose not to. I wonder what they criteria is for the US to stand up for democracy and shout/shoot down genocide and so called oligarchies? Would you care to tell me why the US didn't intervene in Rwanda and continues not to depose Mugabe? Surely those genocides are equal to anything Hussein ever committed?

Because, it wouldn't be profitable for corproate America. We are so self-righteous, but if another country acted the same way we do, we would be all like, how dare they. They must be destroyed.

Our going around trying to "spread democracy" is no different from what Russia did, or Germany. And the truth is, if a country IS democratic, but unfriendly to our government or corporate America, we fund coups and install dictators. Hey, as long as they give us what we want. Only in the end, these things always come back and bite us in the ass, which is exactly what happened with Saddam Hussien, and also Osama bin Laden.

Urbane Guerrilla · 02-01-2009, 10:33 PM

Quite right, Ali, and it drives me to a fury. Quibbles over exactly what is the national interest always muddle the signal that we, or anyone, send. I put it down to the world's imperfection, and make such peace with it as I can. But there's always the hope of unsheathing justice's sword sometime later.

Aliantha · 02-01-2009, 10:35 PM

Oh well, I guess maybe some day we'll all know...or not.

Urbane Guerrilla · 02-01-2009, 10:41 PM

No arguments there, redux; these have all the good features you mentioned.

But, for the people of freedom, there's really no odds at all in who actually removes the oppressor, so long as the oppressor be removed. Sometimes it is peaceful and civilized, excellent, good for the common weal. Sometimes the oppressor puts up a fight, and then it's the artillery that presents the "arguments of kings." And things get done the hard way -- because the oppressor has too much of a taste for behaving in his sociopathic way.

This is something else that has to stay in view: in the small, shallower talent pools of Third World governance, a highly motivated sociopath can rise to head of state. Sociopathic rulers preside over sociopathic states, whereupon everything in the jurisdiction goes to shit. Where's the reason to let that happen? I've never heard of one that I thought was worthwhile. Prosperity is not found under sociopathic, all-powerful rulers. Prosperity is found where capital P Power is not the be-all, end-all, and where power's scope is strictly limited in both area and time.

I'm here to say that hard way or easy way, it must get done. Otherwise the body politic suffers from tumors, to say nothing of zits.

Urbane Guerrilla · 02-01-2009, 10:43 PM

See, this is why Aliantha and I often disagree but never fight: she's got this knack. Me, seriously, not so much.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-01-2009, 10:58 PM

And from Mr Yon.

Aliantha · 02-02-2009, 01:58 AM

It sounds like everyone really. I think everyone will be pulling their heads in over the next few years anyway. Who can afford to go to war atm?

01-31-2009, 02:34 PM	#1
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	There is very little that anyone can say positive about Hamas. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

02-01-2009, 09:28 AM	#2
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Look at it this way, at least under Saddam you could play soccer in the olympics for his brother and have no worries. And let's no forget about thos pesky Kurds. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

02-01-2009, 09:41 AM	#3
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Hamas attempts to reconcile. I am not sure this is going to help. But it does sound like a similar tactic of getting the Israeli's hit them with a hammer again and gain sympathy from the international press. Gaza Militants Launch Rockets Into Israel FEBRUARY 1, 2009, 7:49 A.M. ET http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123348818069836725.html __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

02-01-2009, 04:48 PM	#4
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	You have forgotten where Hamas gets its support, Iran. Where do you think all that cash they have been handing out comes from. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

02-01-2009, 10:28 PM	#7
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I think you only got to 9 on the condescending meter there UG. Have another go and see if you can do better. lol Seriously though, sugarpop has a good point, and unlike yourself, I happen to agree that it's not the US's job to 'police' the world. It's rather sad that in some conflicts the US has chosen to inject themselves, yet in others they choose not to. I wonder what they criteria is for the US to stand up for democracy and shout/shoot down genocide and so called oligarchies? Would you care to tell me why the US didn't intervene in Rwanda and continues not to depose Mugabe? Surely those genocides are equal to anything Hussein ever committed? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

02-01-2009, 10:33 PM	#10
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Quite right, Ali, and it drives me to a fury. Quibbles over exactly what is the national interest always muddle the signal that we, or anyone, send. I put it down to the world's imperfection, and make such peace with it as I can. But there's always the hope of unsheathing justice's sword sometime later. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

02-01-2009, 10:35 PM	#11
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Oh well, I guess maybe some day we'll all know...or not. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

02-01-2009, 10:41 PM	#12
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	No arguments there, redux; these have all the good features you mentioned. But, for the people of freedom, there's really no odds at all in who actually removes the oppressor, so long as the oppressor be removed. Sometimes it is peaceful and civilized, excellent, good for the common weal. Sometimes the oppressor puts up a fight, and then it's the artillery that presents the "arguments of kings." And things get done the hard way -- because the oppressor has too much of a taste for behaving in his sociopathic way. This is something else that has to stay in view: in the small, shallower talent pools of Third World governance, a highly motivated sociopath can rise to head of state. Sociopathic rulers preside over sociopathic states, whereupon everything in the jurisdiction goes to shit. Where's the reason to let that happen? I've never heard of one that I thought was worthwhile. Prosperity is not found under sociopathic, all-powerful rulers. Prosperity is found where capital P Power is not the be-all, end-all, and where power's scope is strictly limited in both area and time. I'm here to say that hard way or easy way, it must get done. Otherwise the body politic suffers from tumors, to say nothing of zits. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

02-01-2009, 10:43 PM	#13
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	See, this is why Aliantha and I often disagree but never fight: she's got this knack. Me, seriously, not so much. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

02-01-2009, 10:58 PM	#14
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	And from Mr Yon. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-02-2009, 01:58 AM	#15
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	It sounds like everyone really. I think everyone will be pulling their heads in over the next few years anyway. Who can afford to go to war atm? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

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