Rumors and Truth

[classicman]

So in the UK they forced an added expense upon an employer and it created LESS opportunity. Hmmm, very interesting.

[DanaC]

Well, the rules have changed somewhat since i was 21 :P

At the time, if you were under 21, you basically had no employment rights. At 21, you became covered by adult employment rights. A lot of those rights were eroded under the Thatcher government, and then reinstated by Labour, things like a minimum wage and minimum holiday rights. Nowadays, if you are under 21, you do have certain employment rights. For example there is a mimimum wage for over 21, a minmum wage for 18-21 years and a mimimum wage for 16-18 year olds.

Currently there is a campaign to take away the age grading on wages. If you do a job, you should get paid for that job the same if you are male, as female, the same if you are old as young, the same if you are black as white.

The problem wasn't that I acquired rights at 21. The problem was that I had no rights prior to that. The answer isn't to remove rights from adult workers, it's to instate them for younger workers. That way employers have no legal loophole for paying people shit wages or not allowing holidays.

[DanaC]

Unscrupulous employers will often find ways of circumventing systems put in place to protect the workforce.

[TheMercenary]

Colbert assigns Obama a new religion:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...lama-surya-das

[classicman]

Obama Accepting Untraceable Donations

Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign is allowing donors to use largely untraceable prepaid credit cards that could potentially be used to evade limits on how much an individual is legally allowed to give or to mask a contributor's identity, campaign officials confirmed.
~ the campaign has also chosen not to use basic security measures to prevent potentially illegal or anonymous contributions from flowing into its accounts, aides acknowledged. Instead, the campaign is scrutinizing its books for improper donations the money has been deposited.

The Obama organization said its extensive review has ensured that the campaign has refunded any improper contributions, and noted that Federal Election Commission rules do not require front-end screening of donations.

In recent weeks, questionable contributions have created headaches for Obama's accounting team as it has tried to explain why campaign finance filings have included itemized donations from individuals using fake names, such as Es Esh or Doodad Pro. Those revelations prompted conservative bloggers to further test Obama's finance vetting by giving money using the kind of prepaid cards that can be bought at a drugstore and cannot be traced to a donor.

The Obama campaign has shattered presidential fundraising records, in part by capitalizing on the ease of online giving. Of the $150 million the senator from Illinois raised in September, nearly $100 million came in over the Internet.

Lawyers for the Obama operation said yesterday that their "extensive back-end review" has carefully scrubbed contributions to prevent illegal money from entering the operation's war chest. "I'm pretty sure if I took my error rate and matched it against any other campaign or comparable nonprofit, you'd find we're doing very well," said Robert Bauer, a lawyer for the campaign. "I have not seen the McCain compliance staff ascending to heaven on a cloud."

The Obama team's disclosures came in response to questions from The Washington Post about the case of Mary T. Biskup, a retired insurance manager from Manchester, Mo., who turned up on Obama's FEC reports as having donated $174,800 to the campaign. Contributors are limited to giving $2,300 for the general election.

Wow 100 million over the internet. Thats a hell of a lot of money.

[wafflepirate]

I don't think her daughter being pregnant means she's a bad mother...
Girls get pregnant.
This may be a suprise to you, but... it happens from having sex! I'm sure most of you here have done that before.

I got pregnant, I could have used a mother around.
A lot.
Instead I had a father who hit me and thought date rape was a right earned by guys with dates stupid enough to drink. Hah.

I think the fact Palin's advertising herself as a family person and won't put her campaign on hold when her daughter could probably use a mother in her life more than ever makes me question how devoted a mother she is... and if that's her selling point to the average american idiot, she's got some worries to worry about.

[Sundae]

I've said before, and I still feel that I admire the Palin family for sticking to their morals. They are different than mine, but I admire a consistent message.

Of course the difference is that I don't believe I have the right to insist they follow my system of beliefs. I sincerely believe that following a path of abstinance through your teens is more likely to result in pregnancy than using contraceptives. Because I believe that teens are pretty likely to have sex. You can't have it both ways. You can't rail against the wickedness of sex education and readily available birth control and say this is what pushes teens into sexual activity, and then when a well-raised child gets pregnant call other people hypocrites because - gasp - they've had sex too.

I honestly think if America could throw away the bible, they'd be far better off. But of course I am biased on that point

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

I honestly think if America could throw away the bible, they'd be far better off. But of course I am biased on that point

I'm sorry, but if I recall correctly America is a country founded upon faith.

The Declaration of Independence:
"hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

The Pledge of Allegiance:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all."

last paragraph of The Star Spangled Banner:
"Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!"

[Shawnee123]

Heehee, I heard a new one last night, someone called Palin "Bible Spice."

I agree that her daughter being pregnant has no relevance to any of this, except for perhaps as SG pointed out you can't deny birth control to teenagers and believe that to make bc readily available is the same as saying "go, be free, have sex!"

Palin is a strong woman, and has strong convictions. I admire that. However, her morals are not mine, and I don't want them imposed on me. That does not make me evil.

As they say "Keep your laws off my body."

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Palin is a strong woman, and has strong convictions. I admire that. However, her morals are not mine, and I don't want them imposed on me. That does not make me evil.

As they say "Keep your laws off my body."

How could she do that as VP or President even?

[Pico and ME]

Whose God is this country based on now, Classic? Your God?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Whose God is this country based on now, Classic? Your God?

America was founded upon God - that is all I said.

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by classicman

America was founded upon God - that is all I said.

OK, whose God then, then?

This talk of a God founding a country is really, really silly.

[glatt]

Neither the Pledge of Allegiance nor the Star Spangled Banner are documents that have any relation to the founding of this county. The SSB was written during the war of 1812, a generation and a half after the country was founded. The Pledge was altered in the 1950's IIRC to include the God part.

The Declaration is an important document directly involved in the founding, and it refers to a creator, but only when talking about the rights men have, not that the government is subservient to God's will.

None of this discussion counters Sundae's point. She's saying that there is a lot of religious influence in America and that it's bad. You actually support what she is saying by providing examples the religion in America.

[classicman]

Glatt, This country was founded upon a belief in God. I specifically used the other examples to show that it has continued over time. Just stated facts.
Yes the Pledge was altered to include God. Thanks for pointing that out. At no point did I state whether it was good, bad or indifferent. I am well aware that my opinions are contrary to the vast majority of the people who post here regularly and thats fine. That is another reason why I specifically didn't post them.

Pico - The greatest country on earth WAS founded upon a belief in God. Like it or not, want it or not, think it silly if you like, but it was and that will always be a simple fact.
Whether a God or religion is a will continue to play a role in shaping the direction of America is a totally different subject.