If you outlaw guns, then only.... - Page 13

Ibby · 10-25-2006, 10:10 PM

I think its funny how in every single case except gun control, the democrats are for staying out of it and letting the people have their freedom, and in every case except gun control, the republicans are for them telling you exactly what you can and cant do.

Aliantha · 10-25-2006, 10:23 PM

We all have a social responsibility to care for our fellow men and women.

To extrapolate that statement, we have a community here and it is a community which, from what I've seen, values respect in its posters with regard to personal issues.

As a poster, I feel it's not unfair to ask that other posters respect the fact that this is an issue which a) effects me personally and b) more than likely effects at least several others.

With that in mind, I don't think it's too much to ask people to lay off rape jokes.

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-25-2006, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

We all have a social responsibility to care for our fellow men and women.

I say so too.

Where we are not yet in agreement is that I say this is true regardless of how much violence the antisocialoids may bring to bear. And we must never impair the ability to repel even the most comprehensive violence.

lumberjim · 10-25-2006, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

As a poster, I feel it's not unfair to ask that other posters respect the fact that this is an issue which a) effects me personally and b) more than likely effects at least several others.

With that in mind, I don't think it's too much to ask people to lay off rape jokes.

should we then stay away from everything that might offend anyone of us? If i said to you that the mention of heart attacks makes me extremely uncomfortable, would you avoid that topic? it wasn't even a rape joke. it was a word joke.

Aliantha · 10-25-2006, 10:38 PM

Well, maybe that's because I'd rather solve the problem of violence in society before it begins rather than waiting for it to happen then blowing it up.

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-25-2006, 10:44 PM

People blindly insist on believing that I'd like to wait that long, too. Nuh uh! It should go without saying that I believe in the holistic approach to these things -- right up to resisting to the death anyone who escaped being repaired before going homicidal. That's just plain morals.

Aliantha · 10-25-2006, 10:55 PM

Well it's nice to see a conservative willing to concede such a point although concede isn't exactly the right word. Maybe agree is better.

When I think about gun control laws in Australia, I'm always forced to remember when Martin Bryant shot 35 people dead which brought on a referendum and strict gun control laws were brought in. A knee jerk reaction which really hasn't solved anything. We still have the same levels of crime and in fact, they're higher than they were, but that's fairly standard across the board for most western countries at the moment. Mr Bryant is locked up in an institution and the 35 people are still dead. If members of the public had had weapons perhaps he would have been shot down sooner, or perhaps more people would have died.

The biggest problem with this argument is that it's almost impossible to resolve even between reasonable people simply because if you have it one way, you can't have it the other and if you can't make the comparison, then there's really only heresay and conjecture.

I believe this is why I don't think it really matters whether everyone or no one has access to guns. It's how people view society that matters, and that's the real problem that needs solving.

lumberjim · 10-25-2006, 11:01 PM

i don't disagree that it may be uncomfortable for you to hear even the word 'rape'. but can you really expect not to? would you be willing to lay off every topic that makes any one of us uncomfortable here? if I told you that the term 'heart attack' gives me pause, would you refrain from using it? if topics involving someone cheating on their spouse cause painfull associations for a dwellar, should we all stay away from jokes about it?

besides, spex's comment wasn't even a joke about rape, really. it was a word joke. you could have substituted any of the other words from that quote, and it would have been funny. and it WAS a quote. it's not like he really enjoys raping people.

if i seem low to you at the moment, you might consider riding a shorter horse.

Aliantha · 10-25-2006, 11:07 PM

Forget it lumber. Just go ahead and crack all the jokes you like...and stick up for those that do too. That's your right. It's also my right to express how I feel about things posted here which is what I did.

Spex didn't seem to have a problem with it. You do. Maybe you need to consider why you think it's wrong for me to ask people to be more thoughtful about this particular subject.

To answer your question. If someone asked me to refrain from speaking about a certain subject because it caused them discomfort then I don't think I'd have a problem with it, however, there are very few subjects that cause quite the same types of feelings in women as rape does.

No offense to you lumber, but you're not a woman, so I entirely accept that you don't understand the point.

10-25-2006, 11:12 PM

This all comes back to something I say a lot.
Freedom always comes at one cost. You will be around other's expression of their freedom. They will partake of freedoms you will not choose to. Some will make you uncomfortable, some will not.
That is part of the package.
Truth is freedom is not for everyone... I am starting to think it is for very few.

Aliantha · 10-25-2006, 11:16 PM

I think there's a difference here rkz. If people want to discuss the issue and speak the truth then that's one thing and can be beneficial to all.

Anyway, you can all just forget I said anything.

I find it interesting that no women have commented on the subject. Only men who feel their freedom is being impinged upon.

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-26-2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I find it interesting that no [other? -- UG] women have commented on the subject. Only men who feel their freedom is being impinged upon.

MaggieL is in this thread, on my side of the fence. Her views are made abundantly clear, and in some volume.

wolf · 10-27-2006, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

MaggieL is in this thread, on my side of the fence. Her views are made abundantly clear, and in some volume.

I am an absolute proponent of personal freedom and the right to keep and bear arms.

10-25-2006, 11:21 PM

I was talking about gun ownership. It is our right. If someone does not like it they don't have to own one.
Geez, everyone has to make shit about them.

footfootfoot · 10-26-2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I was talking about gun ownership. It is our right. If someone does not like it they don't have to own one.
Geez, everyone has to make shit about them.

Did you read the news article? The f-ing moron was waving a gun around at a children's game. Who the fuck packs heat to a pee wee football game?

I wonder if you'd be singing a different tune if he'd let a few rounds go into the stands and took out a couple of kids. Not too small a price to pay for our freedom? As a father I'm astounded that you don;t find his behaviour at least a little questionable. I think it isn't just the felons, but the mentally and emotionally unstable who might serve the general population better by not owning guns.

That's why I don't own one. I'm not a felon, but my friends tell me I'm crazy.

10-25-2006, 10:10 PM	#1
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	I think its funny how in every single case except gun control, the democrats are for staying out of it and letting the people have their freedom, and in every case except gun control, the republicans are for them telling you exactly what you can and cant do. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

10-25-2006, 10:23 PM	#2
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	We all have a social responsibility to care for our fellow men and women. To extrapolate that statement, we have a community here and it is a community which, from what I've seen, values respect in its posters with regard to personal issues. As a poster, I feel it's not unfair to ask that other posters respect the fact that this is an issue which a) effects me personally and b) more than likely effects at least several others. With that in mind, I don't think it's too much to ask people to lay off rape jokes. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-25-2006, 10:38 PM	#5
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Well, maybe that's because I'd rather solve the problem of violence in society before it begins rather than waiting for it to happen then blowing it up. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-25-2006, 10:44 PM	#6
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	People blindly insist on believing that I'd like to wait that long, too. Nuh uh! It should go without saying that I believe in the holistic approach to these things -- right up to resisting to the death anyone who escaped being repaired before going homicidal. That's just plain morals. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

10-25-2006, 10:55 PM	#7
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Well it's nice to see a conservative willing to concede such a point although concede isn't exactly the right word. Maybe agree is better. When I think about gun control laws in Australia, I'm always forced to remember when Martin Bryant shot 35 people dead which brought on a referendum and strict gun control laws were brought in. A knee jerk reaction which really hasn't solved anything. We still have the same levels of crime and in fact, they're higher than they were, but that's fairly standard across the board for most western countries at the moment. Mr Bryant is locked up in an institution and the 35 people are still dead. If members of the public had had weapons perhaps he would have been shot down sooner, or perhaps more people would have died. The biggest problem with this argument is that it's almost impossible to resolve even between reasonable people simply because if you have it one way, you can't have it the other and if you can't make the comparison, then there's really only heresay and conjecture. I believe this is why I don't think it really matters whether everyone or no one has access to guns. It's how people view society that matters, and that's the real problem that needs solving. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-25-2006, 11:01 PM	#8
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	i don't disagree that it may be uncomfortable for you to hear even the word 'rape'. but can you really expect not to? would you be willing to lay off every topic that makes any one of us uncomfortable here? if I told you that the term 'heart attack' gives me pause, would you refrain from using it? if topics involving someone cheating on their spouse cause painfull associations for a dwellar, should we all stay away from jokes about it? besides, spex's comment wasn't even a joke about rape, really. it was a word joke. you could have substituted any of the other words from that quote, and it would have been funny. and it WAS a quote. it's not like he really enjoys raping people. if i seem low to you at the moment, you might consider riding a shorter horse. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

10-25-2006, 11:07 PM	#9
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Forget it lumber. Just go ahead and crack all the jokes you like...and stick up for those that do too. That's your right. It's also my right to express how I feel about things posted here which is what I did. Spex didn't seem to have a problem with it. You do. Maybe you need to consider why you think it's wrong for me to ask people to be more thoughtful about this particular subject. To answer your question. If someone asked me to refrain from speaking about a certain subject because it caused them discomfort then I don't think I'd have a problem with it, however, there are very few subjects that cause quite the same types of feelings in women as rape does. No offense to you lumber, but you're not a woman, so I entirely accept that you don't understand the point. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-25-2006, 11:12 PM	#10
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	This all comes back to something I say a lot. Freedom always comes at one cost. You will be around other's expression of their freedom. They will partake of freedoms you will not choose to. Some will make you uncomfortable, some will not. That is part of the package. Truth is freedom is not for everyone... I am starting to think it is for very few.

10-25-2006, 11:16 PM	#11
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I think there's a difference here rkz. If people want to discuss the issue and speak the truth then that's one thing and can be beneficial to all. Anyway, you can all just forget I said anything. I find it interesting that no women have commented on the subject. Only men who feel their freedom is being impinged upon. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-25-2006, 11:21 PM	#14
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	I was talking about gun ownership. It is our right. If someone does not like it they don't have to own one. Geez, everyone has to make shit about them.

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