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#181 | |
I can hear my ears
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,571
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PS. My mom thinks I'm cool.
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This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan |
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#182 | |
Come on, cat.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area
Posts: 7,013
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I feel bad for Andrea Yates and her entire family. Tragic. I think I could off Susan Smith myself though... with something dull.
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Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good. |
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#183 | |
The urban Jane Goodall
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,012
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I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle |
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#184 | |
The urban Jane Goodall
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,012
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The analogies I like to use in situations like this are microsoft and pop music. Just because they are popular doesn't mean that they are good.
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I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle |
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#185 | |
Junior Master Dwellar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Kingdom of Atlantia
Posts: 2,979
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#186 | |
Constitutional Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
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The ideas of natural law and natural rights are so self-evident, the US Government and its laws are based on it, and it's been written about for the last 300+ years.
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"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin |
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#187 |
Radical Centrist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
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Then certainly you'd have no quibble with the decisions of voters for whom these rights are self-evident.
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#188 | |
Junior Master Dwellar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Kingdom of Atlantia
Posts: 2,979
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#189 |
Junior Master Dwellar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Kingdom of Atlantia
Posts: 2,979
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Radar, I simply don't understand how you can logically think that when a baby is born, it comes out concious, crying, SENTIENT, but minutes before that event it wasn't.
You're asking me to believe that the vagina is a miracle portal, and that passage through it imbues sentience, feelings, and conciousness, and that every moment before that, the baby has none. That makes no sense to me. |
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#190 |
Touring the facilities
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The plains of Colorado
Posts: 3,476
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There has to be a threshold somewhere.
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#191 | ||
Constitutional Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
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So, I would have no quibble over the decisions of voters, as long as they are only voting on issues they have a legitimate authority to vote on. Issues like gay marriage and abortion don't qualify. Those aren't up to anyone but those taking part and can never be legitimately voted on. Quote:
What I was saying though is that whether or not the baby (babies are post birth, a fetus is inside of the womb) is fully sentient it has been removed from its host and is now a separate person. While a fetus is within the woman up until the moment of actual birth it is a parasite and has no claim on the life of its host. Nobody may tell another what they may or may not do with thier own body, even if they happen to live inside of it.
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"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin Last edited by Radar; 03-16-2004 at 09:41 AM. |
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#192 |
still eats dirt
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,031
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You're asking me to believe that the vagina is a miracle portal, and that passage through it imbues sentience, feelings, and conciousness, and that every moment before that, the baby has none.
This is what I find most interesting about the entire argument and is probably something that will never be fully agreed upon. George Carlin, I think, once said during one of his rants that life never really stops and just keeps going on and on. There really isn't a division line between a fetus and a baby no more than there is a defining moment when a clump of cells becomes something more than a clump of cells. It is a smooth transition from the very first division of cells all the way to turning 18, packing up, and leaving home. I'm not fully convinced that you can call a fetus a parasite, either, as it has never been recorded in any text I can find that a parasite can be of the same species. I also cannot find any text in which a parasite is not an invader of external origin. |
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#193 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 516
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#194 | |
The urban Jane Goodall
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,012
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I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle |
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#195 |
Radical Centrist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
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So some voters are initially right but are stupid and then misled; others are merely wrong; and in either case the great majority on which they vote is completely invalid to start.
Either A) we really still await the source of this self-evidence which is obvious, or... B) politics must quell the masses no matter what percentage of them figure out what is actually correct, since ALL of them believe that their view is actually correct. |
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