02-08-2007, 05:22 AM | #181 |
trying hard to be a better person
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Oh...that last post was for you btw Maggie, just in case you couldn't figure that out.
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Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber |
02-08-2007, 08:45 AM | #182 | ||
Makes some feel uncomfortable
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,346
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Anything is possible. People in Philadelphia don't drink directly from the Delaware River anymore, do they? Have I endorsed prohibitionism? No, just rational thought. While I don't endorse this, that would make it easier for gun-using criminals to be erradicated. The pro-gun contingency seems to want to have a gun to protect them from potential attacks, right? If only criminals had handguns, they would esily be identified as potential attackers, and can be shot on sight. You'd like that, wouldn't you? You could change carreers, get into law enforcement, and finally get to kill someone - use that handgun you so intensely *need* to carry.
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"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce |
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02-08-2007, 09:59 AM | #183 | |
UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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02-08-2007, 11:31 AM | #184 | |
Etherial
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 153
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If you're gonna argue the point, use reasoned points, not personal slurs against someone. "Finally get to kill someone..." Sheesh! |
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02-08-2007, 11:37 AM | #185 |
Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya?
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,206
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Eh, it was just a little tongue in cheek. I've heard much worse.
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A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby |
02-08-2007, 02:49 PM | #186 |
Makes some feel uncomfortable
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,346
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Naw, just wait them out. As they're identified, they're dead. It'll be a hunt of attrition.
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"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce |
02-09-2007, 12:40 AM | #187 | |
Person who doesn't update the user title
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Location: Southern California
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This is the difference between adolescence and, oh, about twenty-two... been there, done that. You'll probably do about the same. Rational arguments are indeed the only kind that do convince. I am, quite rationally, persuaded that gun banners' efforts, if successful, will help kill my descendants -- but if unsuccessful, my descendants will not die in pogroms. Don't seek for evil where it is not, laddie. You'll get laughed at, and head-wagged, and get derisive fingers pointed in your direction.
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Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. |
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02-09-2007, 12:55 AM | #188 | ||
Person who doesn't update the user title
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Spexxvet may actually have read Raging Against Self Defense on JPFO's website. He exhibits every one of the symptomatic patterns of thought as if he'd read the page and is now going down a checklist.
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It's a rough and martial game, but in the process of exercising these killer faculties, the necessity of balancing them with civilized restraint becomes not only clear, but intensely desired by the practitioners of these violent arts also. The SCA, like the knights of old, speak of this simply as "chivalry," and this is clearly where all the ideals and ramifications of chivalry spring from. Good soldiers in the combat arms, in particular the highly-trained SpecWar types, also find this balance. Hunting game animals will also give outlet to this. Some, like the late Jeff Cooper, say that something life-and-death like hunting becomes through its seriousness something that is quite a sacrament -- Cooper has used that word -- and I suppose they have reason to. Personally, I'd have to shoot a few critters and get back to you. Quote:
Civilized? You? No. Not at bottom. But salvation is nonetheless at hand: see above.
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Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 02-09-2007 at 01:09 AM. |
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02-09-2007, 04:09 AM | #189 | |
The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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Thank heavens London has become civilized and outlawed those evil guns.
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Trite? Yes. Cliché? Yes. But it's still true.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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02-09-2007, 09:18 AM | #190 | ||
Makes some feel uncomfortable
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Murders with firearms (per capita) by country (1998-2000). Does not include accidental deaths by firearms. #8 United States: 0.0279271 per 1,000 people #32 United Kingdom: 0.00102579 per 1,000 people Good of you to pluck one incident to point out. But big picture facts indicate that the US has 27 times more firearm murders than the UK, where firearms are illegal. Coincidence? I think not. Reduce the number of firearms in a society, and reduce the number of firearms deaths. In fact, from here: Murders (per capita) by country (1998-2000). Total murders by all means. #24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people #46 United Kingdom: 0.0140633 per 1,000 people All those would-be gun-using killers did not convert to stabbers, beaters, stranglers, or whatever – the murder rate in the US is still 3 times UK’s murder rate. Quote:
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02-09-2007, 09:50 AM | #191 | |
I hear them call the tide
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Location: Perpetual Chaos
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But would those three people still be alive if there was more legal gun ownership? Would they guy in bed have woken up in time to defend himself? He was attacked while he was asleep -clearly the attackers had already planned to get him when he was unable to fight back -with or without a gun. And the guy at the icerink -if the gun used to shoot him were legal, the killers might have been able to argue self defence..... ....and imagine if some of those onlookers had been legally armed and decided to bring down the attackers. Could've been a whole lot more dead..... Would they still have shot him if there was a higher chance that he was armed? well they picked a crowded ice arena in the first place, so it doesn't seem like consequences for themselves were something they were considering. An awful lot of speculation is required to arrive at the conclusion that these three deaths would have been prevented by legal gun ownership. But a little easier for me to imagine that more guns could have led to more deaths.
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The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart |
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02-09-2007, 12:27 PM | #192 |
Makes some feel uncomfortable
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Posts: 10,346
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Monster has a good point. In terms of the number of deaths, there would be a wash, at best. For instance, if Bruce was in a fender bender with Maggie, and got out of his car and approached Maggie, and she was the only one armed, she might feel threatened and shoot Bruce. Or if Bruce was the only one armed, he might shoot her. Either way, there's only one dead body. The shooter would have all the time in the world to shoot, and probably wouldn't miss. If both were armed, they could rush their shots, and shoot innocent bystanders, or they could both hit their targets and kill each other. It's much more likely to have a higher body count.
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"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce |
02-09-2007, 02:43 PM | #193 | |
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Making a gun of your own, or for others is quite simple. I get the impression that you think that if you outlaw something it will just go away. Many of the guns that are used by gangs in the US come from China along with their drugs. The laws would only harm those who are law abiding citizens, making them criminals... they would accomplish nothing else. BTW, Canada and a few other nations have as many guns per household as the US and lower murder and violent crime rates than the US and the UK. Guns are not the problem, it is a social consciousness/attitude problem. My personal feeling is we have lost our commitment to the family. Places in the US with more liberal carry laws like Texas have lower violent crime rates. |
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02-09-2007, 09:53 PM | #194 |
Sibling of the Commonweal
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Interesting debate going on and if you don't mind, I'm going to jump in for a bit. I own two guns and both are for home defense, a 9mm and a pump action shotgun. They're kept in plain sight at the end of the hallway, locked in a glass case. Once every 3-4 weeks I'll take them to the range so I don't get rusty. Only the ruger has ever been fired anywhere but the range but I was quite happy that I had it at the time.
I dislike the idea of needing them, I don't mind the fact that I have them. It's a right under our constitution, and they're to be used strictly for personal security reasons. I think many people may go overboard with their love for firearms, but then they may say the same about my love for computers. |
02-09-2007, 10:59 PM | #195 |
The future is unwritten
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Welcome to the Cellar, Jordan.
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