Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I want the government to have a larger hand in healthcare because I don't trust big, profit-motivated business (health insurance, pharma, providers).

Then why support a bill that will not control the costs that insurance can charge in the form of co-pays and higher deductables? There are very few cost controls. Why support a bill that shifts more costs to taxpayers? Why support a bill that puts few controls on big Pharm for years?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Then why support a bill that will not control the costs that insurance can charge in the form of co-pays and higher deductables? There are very few cost controls. Why support a bill that shifts more costs to taxpayers? Why support a bill that puts few controls on big Pharm for years?

Because it's better than our current system. It certainly is not perfect. Maybe, like the civil rights laws in the early sixties, this will be a first step of many.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Then why support a bill that will not control the costs that insurance can charge in the form of co-pays and higher deductables? There are very few cost controls. Why support a bill that shifts more costs to taxpayers? Why support a bill that puts few controls on big Pharm for years?

Hear, hear! This is something no one wants to talk about. The real reason no one was interested in cost-controls for Pharma? They've bought enough congress people to keep that from happening.

And with all the fear-mongering about 'death panels' and 'cost benefit analysis' there will never be a way to convince the American public of any sort of rationality in this respect.

Preventative medicine. Vaccinations. Screening. Smoking cessation. Nutrition and weight management. Birth control. Generic, old-fashioned medications (like statins, aspirin, beta-blockers, ace inhibitors) to control the lion's share of age-related cardiac issues. This is where the money should be spent.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Pie

Preventative medicine. Vaccinations. Screening. Smoking cessation. Nutrition and weight management. Birth control. Generic, old-fashioned medications (like statins, aspirin, beta-blockers, ace inhibitors) to control the lion's share of age-related cardiac issues. This is where the money should be spent.

Those people don't buy as many representatives as Big Pharma though.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Pie

Hear, hear! This is something no one wants to talk about. The real reason no one was interested in cost-controls for Pharma? They've bought enough congress people to keep that from happening.

And with all the fear-mongering about 'death panels' and 'cost benefit analysis' there will never be a way to convince the American public of any sort of rationality in this respect.

Preventative medicine. Vaccinations. Screening. Smoking cessation. Nutrition and weight management. Birth control. Generic, old-fashioned medications (like statins, aspirin, beta-blockers, ace inhibitors) to control the lion's share of age-related cardiac issues. This is where the money should be spent.

And get ready to be screwed by uncontrolled increases in Co-pays and out of pocket insurance costs within the next 6 months and again in about 3.5 years. This was quite a telling interview and confirms what I have said all along. The insurance companies are going to jack up the rates and pass the costs on to the consumers.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=125072294

[piercehawkeye45]

The only health care reform America will accept has to be designed by God itself....

[Shawnee123]

Why is it that people don't understand the difference between the uninsured going to the emergency room because that is the only way they can get treatment, and the huge costs associated with that, and the lesser costs, in the long run and on the large scale, of preventative and primary care?

I think most people are afraid someone else is going to get something free, that they themselves have to pay for.

Well, we live in a society. That's how we roll.

[Pooka]

While, I don’t disagree that it would be cheaper to take preventive measures… I believe we should all be taking personal financial responsibility for ourselves and our immediate families. Placing the government in charge of Healthcare is not the answer. California currently offers state funded health coverage… the state is essentially bankrupt; hospitals aren’t getting paid for months at a time… it is a disaster.
There is a large population of folks who believe that they should be supported by the rest of us. I do not think it is right to fault those with means to pay for healthcare for not wanting to foot the bill for others beyond what the current income tax supports. When I did not have the income to cover the cost of health insurance our community hospital had a program through which you could pay a percentage of the bill. With this program you could access a number of clinics across the area. The program still exists. I was grateful the short time I needed it, but was much happier to not need it anymore.
There should be more of a push for self sufficiency in this nation. Of course, if you believe that the higher income should foot the bill for the lower… well we will not see eye to eye on that. I personally am for a flat 10% tax across the board. I have come to realize that the higher paid jobs… they pay more because of the education that people have. If I had my masters my income potential would be much greater than it is. That is how it should be. Do I think that those higher income folks should have to share their hard earned money with me… uhhh noooo.

[Shawnee123]

I see what you're saying Pooka. This is something I've struggled with: I always thought that we can't imagine the circumstances some people grow up in. We hear stories of the kid who grew up in an inner-city slum, who is now CEO of a company or something. Sure, the potential for bettering oneself exists, but who shows someone that? The kid who is now successful surely had some influence in his life who told him "you don't have to live this way...you can make it." Also, not everyone is exactly equal in intelligence.

However, as I've grown older I've had to try very hard (and I am not always successful) not to get jaded by the crap I see every single working day. It's easy for me to think 'oh come ON...quit playing games and get serious about your life' because I see the people who play the system. I also see those who are helped by the system.

Do I think higher income people should foot bills for lower income people? Not for most things, or in all circumstances. But, because there ARE circumstances people cannot help or change, and because I do believe that as a society we have a responsibility to help those who can't help themselves, I think we do have certain responsibilities as a civilized society. Unfortunately the sneakies and the lazies ride that train too.

I think society does have a responsibility, in at least two critical areas: health care, and education.

But believe me, I struggle with this sometimes...no more so than when I was working hard and struggling to make ends meet myself.

[Pooka]

Govenment is in charge of education and we are so far behind other countries it isn't even funny. Now translate that to healthcare... you see my point?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Pooka

Govenment is in charge of education and we are so far behind other countries it isn't even funny. Now translate that to healthcare... you see my point?

I would love to. But there is nothing in the healthcare bill even remotely approaching an equivalent to the public school system.

If the government did "take over" healthcare the way it "took over" education, that would be amazing. My home is within walking distance of several excellent public and private schools. Some takeover.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I would love to. But there is nothing in the healthcare bill even remotely approaching an equivalent to the public school system.

If the government did "take over" healthcare the way it "took over" education, that would be amazing. My home is within walking distance of several excellent public and private schools. Some takeover.

If you don't think that "No Child Left-behind" or mandatory textbooks is government control you need to talk to your kids teachers. You have school aged kids right?

[piercehawkeye45]

That doesn't even make sense since most countries we are far behind in education and health care have more socialized education and health care than us. American education and health care is going to be fucked up whether it is free market or nationalized.

[Shawnee123]

I do. Messed up systems. But the way to change them is to...change them. I don't think staying with the status quo because we probably won't get it completely right, at first, is not an acceptable answer either.

I don't know what is the best route, but we can worry about it, and stagnate, or we can take steps to make things better.

The myth of government controlled health care is just nonsense.

What most Americans have, and will continue to have, and in some respects, see improved, at least in terms of coverage, is a system of privately administered health insurance w/ government regulation.