If you outlaw guns, then only.... - Page 12

footfootfoot · 10-24-2006, 11:26 AM

"... "I see a gentleman pounding on another gentleman... "

Class, remember, gentlemen do not pound other gentlemen.

Neither do they obstruct justice, which is how I'd interpret trying to prevent someone from writing down a license plate number. I wonder what color the various skin tones of the people involved were, and why cops would witness someone being shoved 15 feet and lunged at and then arrest the same person when he attempts to defend himself and then let his attacker go free.

I'm sure it's all good.

Spexxvet · 10-24-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Did you read the entire story? Like here if you don't like Fox.

The headlines screaming "man pulls gun because his son wasn't getting played" are false. Both Derkoch (5 feet 9, 215 pounds) and the referee who assaulted him (6 feet 3, 250 pounds) were charged. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the courts; the AgAssault is a felony; if convicted Derkoch will lose his permit.

What's your point? Does Derkoch's brandishing hie gun meet your (and PA law's) criteria for legality/justification?

Spexxvet · 10-24-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

... Lock away those who misuse guns,...

By then, it's a little too late, isn't it.

10-24-2006, 03:33 PM

That sounds very familiar... "lets stop lawbreaking before it happens!"
It has always been an excuse for removing freedoms and taking over populations.
Thanks for making it very clear to us all.

Aliantha · 10-24-2006, 07:24 PM

pre-emptive strike? Does this sound familiar to anyone at all??? I wonder who you'll be voting for at the next election.

Aliantha · 10-24-2006, 07:25 PM

Spex...in my very humble opinion, I think you would be better served not to quote lines like that in an open forum where there are women present who have been the vicitm of rape.

Spexxvet · 10-24-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Spex...in my very humble opinion, I think you would be better served not to quote lines like that in an open forum where there are women present who have been the vicitm of rape.

I apologize for being insensitive.

Aliantha · 10-24-2006, 07:50 PM

That's very kind of you Spex. I apologize for making you feel uncomfortable.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-24-2006, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

That sounds very familiar... "lets stop lawbreaking before it happens!"
It has always been an excuse for removing freedoms and taking over populations.
Thanks for making it very clear to us all.

Right, that's like banning all private planes because a baseball player flew into a building.

footfootfoot · 10-24-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Right, that's like banning all private planes because a baseball player flew into a building.

Would it not be more sensible to ban baseball players?

Easier anyway. You see how much headway we're making getting MaggieL to beat her arsenal into plowshares, what chance do you think you've got getting her to hand over her plane?

MaggieL · 10-24-2006, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

What's your point? Does Derkoch's brandishing hie gun meet your (and PA law's) criteria for legality/justification?

Still haven't read the law, I see.

But that doesn't matter much in this case, because the law on justification doesn't apply. Why? Because deadly force wasn't used. The courts will decide if the brandishing constituted AgAssault, which is how it's being charged. The way I read the statue it doesn't apply, but then I'm not a lawyer...or a Philadelphia judge.

I will point out that the brandishing was sufficient to terminate the assault, and no shots were fired, which is more than we can say for...

Quote:

In March 2005, a Connecticut man was arrested after striking his daughter's softball coach in the head with an aluminum bat. He pleaded no contest last month and received a sentence that did not include prison time, which outraged some parents and coaches.

I also notice that Henwood is working very hard to distract attention from the fact that he threw the first punch, knocking Derkotch to the ground. Which shouldn't be difficult given that the vast majority of the media are telling this story without even menitioning that an assault was underway before the brandishing occurred. Henwood claims "I percieved a threat and struck him...", which should be a clue to you about the law...no doubt that was a statement coached by his attorney, because the way I read the AgAssault statute, given the facts as reported, Henwood is closer to being guilty of that than Derkotch is.

Spexxvet · 10-25-2006, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Still haven't read the law, I see.

Still evading the tough questions, eh, Maggie? Please answer:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ME

What's your point?

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by ME

Does Derkoch's brandishing hi[s] gun meet your (and PA law's) criteria for legality/justification?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

I also notice that Henwood is working very hard to distract attention from the fact that he threw the first punch, knocking Derkotch to the ground. Which shouldn't be difficult given that the vast majority of the media are telling this story without even menitioning that an assault was underway before the brandishing occurred. Henwood claims "I percieved a threat and struck him...", which should be a clue to you about the law...no doubt that was a statement coached by his attorney, because the way I read the AgAssault statute, given the facts as reported, Henwood is closer to being guilty of that than Derkotch is.

And Henwood should be punished. Derkotch was out of line just by accosting Henwood. Henwood was surely aware that situations like this could get violent, and so was probably on edge. Derkotch Did not remove himself from the confrontation - perhaps he was emboldened because he was packin' heat. When Henwood showed signs of violence, Derkotch STILL did not move away. After being struck, Derkotch STILL did not move away. Maybe carrying a gun causes an increase in non-gun-related violence, too.

mrnoodle · 10-25-2006, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

...lock away those who misuse guns...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

By then, it's a little too late, isn't it.

It's not a deterrent, it's a punishment, and a way to ensure that the person won't ever get the chance to misuse a gun again.
I've come to believe that the threat of consequences does very little to deter people from serious crimes. Shoplifting, yes. Murder/rape, no.

Spexxvet · 10-25-2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Right, that's like banning all private planes because a baseball player flew into a building.

Sure, and don't put a life vest on your kid until after he drowns. And don't stop smoking until after you have cancer. And let's not ban DDT. Let's not stop North Korea from having nukular weapons until after they massacre thousands of people.

There certainly is a reasonableness to prevention.

Spexxvet · 10-25-2006, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

It's not a deterrent, it's a punishment, and a way to ensure that the person won't ever get the chance to misuse a gun again.
I've come to believe that the threat of consequences does very little to deter people from serious crimes. Shoplifting, yes. Murder/rape, no.

I guess you're just hoping it's not your family that the guns are misused on.

10-24-2006, 11:26 AM	#166
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	"... "I see a gentleman pounding on another gentleman... " Class, remember, gentlemen do not pound other gentlemen. Neither do they obstruct justice, which is how I'd interpret trying to prevent someone from writing down a license plate number. I wonder what color the various skin tones of the people involved were, and why cops would witness someone being shoved 15 feet and lunged at and then arrest the same person when he attempts to defend himself and then let his attacker go free. I'm sure it's all good. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

10-24-2006, 07:24 PM	#170
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	pre-emptive strike? Does this sound familiar to anyone at all??? I wonder who you'll be voting for at the next election. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-24-2006, 07:25 PM	#171
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Spex...in my very humble opinion, I think you would be better served not to quote lines like that in an open forum where there are women present who have been the vicitm of rape. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-24-2006, 07:50 PM	#173
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	That's very kind of you Spex. I apologize for making you feel uncomfortable. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-24-2006, 03:33 PM	#169
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	That sounds *very* familiar... "lets stop lawbreaking before it happens!" It has always been an excuse for removing freedoms and taking over populations. Thanks for making it very clear to us all.

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