I Miss Bush

[DanaC]

*nods* I can see that rural transport might be more of a problem over there.

But you can see the principle. It's not about making sure everybody has everything they could want. It's about ensuring, as much as possible, that everybody has what they need to survive and has access to that which is needed to be a functioning member of society.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yes I see that, and believe it or not, the necessities are available to every American. But not always in a dignified manner, which causes some to decline. Right now there are something like 10 to 20 million children that are eligible for free health care, but not getting it because their parents haven't signed them up.

[DanaC]

Yah. We have a similar problem with some of the means tested benefits, especially those directed at older people. Which is one of the problems inherent in making assistance difficult and humiliating: often the people who most need that help are deterred from seeking it when they most need it and then end up becoming a bigger cost burden on the state, when they hit absolute crisis point or preventable health problems become acute enough to warrant emergency intervention.

One of the best things the labour government did (imo) was bring in the cold weather payments for anyone claiming incapacity benefit, disability allowance, or pension credits, and for anyone above a particular age (can't recall if it was 65 or 70). Payment was triggered any time the temperature dropped below freezing for 7 consecutive days. No need to claim: the cheque arrived by post automatically.

By attaching it to particular benefit types, and age bands, and making it automatic, the government made sure that the most vulnerable groups in society had some kind of response to an extended period of cold weather; and reduced drastically the number of pensioners who die of hypothermia every year in the UK.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Now that's counterproductive, the greater the number of elderly fatalities, the lower the cost of elderly benefits.

[Undertoad]

If the assistance on offer is unpalatable and humliating, then those who have no choice but to seek it for long periods can become psychologically damaged by the experience.

If they are socialized correctly, the same damage occurs if the assistance on offer is palatable and easy to receive. Productive cultures value productive work.

[Pico and ME]

Public assistance saved my family when I was growing up. I wonder how many other families it has saved in the last 40 years. You don't ever really hear about those numbers. Its much more attention grabbing to list the people who suck off the system and never move up.

[Lamplighter]

Amen to that.

My daughter went on "welfare" after her dear hubby went on a confined vacation
for mistaking an undercover cop for a merchant.
She suddenly developed allergies that put an end to her career in the food industry.

She worked with the system to get training and got a job in the printing industry.
She's now an independent woman with 2 kids in college and 1 there next year.

Of course, while on welfare she was forced to drive a pink Cadillac.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Of course, while on welfare she was forced to drive a pink Cadillac.

That sounds like a good deterrent.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Public assistance saved my family when I was growing up. I wonder how many other families it has saved in the last 40 years.

That was the point of work done by the recent Nobel prize winner. Public assistance even results in a more productive economy and nation.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by tw

That was the point of work done by the recent Nobel prize winner. Public assistance even results in a more productive economy and nation.

This is the problem I have with the small government, anti-welfare approach. It isn't that I have a candyfloos vision of fairness, and am not able to conscience The Things Which Need To Be Done.

I would prefer a greater level of equity in society: but if it made economic sense for the nation to offer little or no public assistance, I could at least be reconciled to some of the argument on the grounds of the greater good. It doesn't make economic sense to me. Therefore I find it very hard to see why i should reconcile myself to the social harm such a system allows, and indeed to a degree depends upon.

[Shawnee123]

http://www.cellar.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=6205

It's OK. kero's hubby found a job!

[kerosene]

It's true, he has found a good paying job. Thanks, Shaw.

But in May, we were pretty desperate. My cleaning business was not paying the bills. Labor Ready appears to be private. I think we found out that they receive some kind of funding from the govt or maybe just that their projects are usually govt projects? He did apply at many temp agencies. We live in Western Weld County, though and there is a glut of labor in this area, it seems.

His new job is as a consultant for a state agency.