Seriousness That Changed You

[xoxoxoBruce]

I know what you're talking about, Zip. I've never had a lot of tolerance for brats. Kids, through inexperience and lack of understanding are going to screw up. They all do, we all did. I can handle that, but deliberate, malicious, button pushing I can't tolerate.
I've been told, they have to do that to learn how far they can go, testing limits and learning consequences. Hey, I'll help them learn the consequences. What happens when they pull that shit in the real world.
I'm told it's different when they are your own spawn. I chose not to take that risk because the SPCA won't take 'em, ya know.
They claim it's all on the parents, the nurturing and affection. That doesn't explain why a couple will have several kids and one turns out to be a clinker, though. I've seen it several times, where one of the brood is a monster, among normal siblings. There has to be more to it than the nurturing.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

There has to be more to it than the nurturing.

Nature via Nurture

We've all got biological limitations but the way we are or are not nurtured alters our performance within those parameters.

The question to ask is why is the child pushing buttons? I'd argue that it is a form of communication developed because of limitations enforced by the childs biology and/or his environment. OC's looks like a perfect storm. The child is obviously limited in capacity but when he does ask a question clearly he gets pounded for it. When I was in high school one of my friends ran away from home. He landed at our house, because while my folks were tough, they were also predictable and fair. OC, as hard as it is to hear, you are running an unpredictable house where communication isn't taking place through normal channels. Please do not pursue the adoption of another child.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Griff

OC, as hard as it is to hear, you are running an unpredictable house where communication isn't taking place through normal channels. Please do not pursue the adoption of another child.

..... I don't even know how to respond to that.....

[Griff]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

..... I don't even know how to respond to that.....

If I've misread the situation, I apologize. I know it is impossible to paint the complete picture with words.

[lumberjim]

being raised in the same house doesn't mean you were raised the same way. parents treat kids differently. it's just a hard goddamned fact of life.

[Elspode]

LJ, for example, was an abused child. He was forced to watch reruns of Andy Griffith while his siblings were treated to more enlightening PBS fare.

[glatt]

It's true that kids are treated differently. Starting with just the blatantly obvious, our firstborn had our undivided attention for 3 years. Much of that was anxiety ridden and 1st time parent paranoia filled. Our second born didn't get the same amount of attention, and we have been much more laid back. The two have different personalities. Not sure if it's because they have been treated different or they are wired different or both. Our first born is a pleaser and our second born is a strong-headed rebel. Both are great.

[LabRat]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

i'm a middle child. my brother who is 6 years younger, had an entirely different environment to deal with.

Originally Posted by glatt

our firstborn had our undivided attention for 3 years. Our second born didn't get the same amount of attention, and we have been much more laid back. The two have different personalities.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

being raised in the same house doesn't mean you were raised the same way. parents treat kids differently. it's just a hard goddamned fact of life.

I agree, but also contend that there are inherent differences in each child also.

I let a bit of frustration at my brother's lack of caring for anything but himself cloud my judgement there. I view him as a total loser, and most I know who have met us both agree. There is bad blood there and I apologise for not being more unbiased(?)

Carry on.

[lumberjim]

yep. i'm a middle child. my sister is burdened with constantly feeling like she has to live up to expectations of others, resents it, rebels against it, etc. my brother who is 6 years younger, had an entirely different environment to deal with. my

[Stormieweather]

Kids learn what they see.

From reading this story, I see in OC's son, a child who has been rejected, abandoned, discarded, shuffled around, and generally taught that he is a burden, rather than a joy and a pleasure. He has most likely seen and been a target of abuse (the man raising him did not go from a responsible, kind, loving person to an axe murderer with no stops in between). My perception is that this child has been been taught to manipulate, disrespect, and to use hostility in an attempt to control his surroundings and those he is in contact with.

No where in this story do I see where this child was nurtured, taught to reason and discuss, given stability or a healthy role model to learn from. Does anyone love him? Respect him and his choices? Teach him to respect and love himself?

Calling his girlfriend Ms Thang is highly disrespectful and contemptous. Dismissing her due to her upbringing and background is pretty snotty and pretentious, given that none of us are perfect. OC has not done a very good job of making wise choices, so it doesn't seem to me that she has any room to condemn another person for theirs. Calling him Boy is depersonalizing and humiliating. He is not a piece of furniture to be dropped off at Uncle Jack's when your life has no room for him. Or discarded when you think he isn't filling YOUR needs adequately.

This kid didn't ask to be brought into the world. OC made that choice. Once she made that choice, she was responsible for him. OC could have chosen to give him up for adoption, ensuring a better chance at a healthy, functional life, but no...she chose to dump him at someone's house who had no ties to him...a person with no motivation to adequately care for him and raise him lovingly and responsibly.

I am simply amazed that he has turned out as well as he has. He must be one very tough cookie to have survived the life he has been subjected to (but did NOT deserve).

At 18, a young man probably doesn't know all the reasons he is attracted to the things he is. OC had the perfect opportunity to bond a little and have a reasonable discussion about the origins and meaning behind the necklace, but she chose instead to attempt to control her son's choices through verbal violence and manipulation. I am completely unsurprised at his response. If that incident is representative of the interaction between the two of them, both are probably better off without being in each others lives. I can only hope that the legacy that this child has been given does not get passed on to the next generation.

In case anyone is wondering where I am coming from with all this, I had a son out of wedlock, 18 years ago. His father never had anything to do with him, or me after conception. I knew that I was responsible for this human being and how his life turned out. I dropped out of college, worked two jobs for many years to support us, and gave up many personal desires and goals in order to be the very best mother that I could be. We've been through a lot together, he and I, but I'll tell you one thing...he has never doubted that I love him deeply and will always be there for him, no matter how much I disapprove of his choices. I have always treated him with dignity and respect and in return, he treats me the same. I've taken in teenagers whose families have thrown them out because they were 'uncontrollable'. Guess what? They don't need forceful control, they need respect and dignity. I give it to them and they respond in kind.

And if my son came home wearing a gf's Wiccan necklace, I would not force him to take it off, even if it meant nothing whatsoever to him. He is 18 and I would never dream of trying to control his personal choices to such a degree.

Violence breeds violence. Hostility breeds hostility. Disrespect breeds disrespect. This child learned all of that from his family of origin.

Stormie

[Perry Winkle]

"Be kind, for everyone you know is fighting a great/hard battle."
-- Philo of Alexandria

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by grant

"Be kind, for everyone you know is fighting a great/hard battle."
-- Philo of Alexandria

Well put, grant.

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by Deuce

Well put, grant.

Thanks, I'm such a quote whore.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

No where in this story do I see where this child was nurtured, taught to reason and discuss, given stability or a healthy role model to learn from. Does anyone love him? Respect him and his choices? Teach him to respect and love himself?

Point taken. There is, in fact, nothing about the positives in the child's upbringing contained in the OC's description of the crisis she's going through.

Tell me, the last time someone broke your heart and abused you badly, was your first response to talk about how well they were raised, or did you pour out your hurt and anger first?

Just because the girl didn't tell us the good stuff does *not* defacto mean there was none.

[xoxoxoBruce]

His father never had anything to do with him, or me after conception.

OC was not that fortunate. She had no choice, that she was aware of, at that time. She was completely manipulated and when she finally did make a choice, her choice was murdered. She's probably quite fortunate she was not..... he came close.

Since that time she's made plenty of bad choices. I've a hunch much of it was because she never learned how to make good choices.... too much living day to day with no discernible path to anything or anywhere. living like that tends to push you to people that are similar which is the last thing you need. It makes for a very deep rut where forward and back are the only options visible.

Put, being completely controlled and not developing decision skills, together and you get a person that is always looking for answers or rules to live by. Instructions, user's manual for life.
Many religions are more than happy to provide that. Politics is harder, you can't just find the "right party" and do what they tell you. No party is going to be able to do that without conflicting with something you believe, or believe in, along the way. No party is consistent enough to always follow a certain philosophy. Religions are better at it but still waver at times.

Stormie, you made the wrong choice which resulted in pregnancy and being on your own.
It would appear you made mostly the right choices after that.
How did you know how to make those choices?
How did you know what to do and how to treat the kid?
Reading books? Asking friends? Emulating your mother?
Probably mostly the latter, in that you just raised the kid the way you remembered being raised.


But what if you hadn't been raised that way?