Latest Terrorist attempt

[Shawnee123]

As always, it's about "winning" and not what is good for us, for our country.

It will be the death of all of us, the death of our way of life, the death of our freedom. It is evil in its most dangerous form.

Politics have been riddled with evil since the beginning of organization of said politics, but the pockets of "doing what is right" for the people have become almost non-existent. Greed is the supreme ruler, might equals right its most faithful and its strongest minion.

[richlevy]

To say that those in the Middle East have no grievance, real or perceived, against us is wrong. Most of the 20th century involved the US or some European country mucking about there because of oil or some strategic position related to oil. If there wasn't a drop of oil in the Middle East, we'd be pretty much ignoring it the same way we mostly ignore Africa.

Most of the terrorists have overplayed their hand with a majority of the populations. But even in places where they are generally not welcome, they have support. And in some places they have a lot of support. How important is even a small amount of support? In the U.S. Eric Rudolph was on the run for 5 years.

It is thought that Rudolph had the assistance of sympathizers while evading capture. Some in the area were vocal in support of him. Two country music songs were written about him and a locally top-selling T-shirt read: "Run Rudolph Run." The Anti-Defamation League noted that "extremist chatter on the Internet has praised Rudolph as 'a hero' and some followers of hate groups are calling for further acts of violence to be modeled after the bombings he is accused of committing."[7]

The solution to the Irish Troubles was a political one - the Good Friday agreement and a power-sharing executive, essentially dividing control between Sinn Fein and the Democratic Unionist parties. One party gets the first minister post and the other gets the deputy first minister post. This is a bit like forcing Obama to have Dick Cheney as his VP.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

It will be the death of all of us, the death of our way of life, the death of our freedom. It is evil in its most dangerous form.

I don't know about taking it that far but as a country, we have the political system we deserve. As a collective, we tend to make politics an emotional game and not a logical one. We eat up emotional issues and, in return,are force fed back to us. We don't hold our local politicians (senators and House members) responsible and always find a scapegoat, which in turn allows politicians to do whatever they desire without much accountability.

Until the US population decides to take action and actually live up to the potential of democratic system, nothing will change for the better. Unfortunately, every four years we are seduced by another person who convinces us that rogue politicians can save our country, and not the people ourselves.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I don't know about taking it that far but as a country, we have the political system we deserve. As a collective, we tend to make politics an emotional game and not a logical one. We eat up emotional issues and, in return,are force fed back to us. We don't hold our local politicians (senators and House members) responsible and always find a scapegoat, which in turn allows politicians to do whatever they desire without much accountability.

We also need leaders who are smart and engaging. Reagan got fed a lot of bad ideas by his advisors, but as an experienced pitchman was able to sell them. Nixon may have been smarter than Kennedy, but had the presence of a rock. We should start a breeding program hooking up supernerds with supermodels. Maybe Nicole Kidman can hook up with Larry Page. You might get the best of both worlds, like Ivanka Trump. Of course, you might get a whole crop of Sarah Palins and Ann Coulters, but we already have good special education programs.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

If you dont think that this latest terrorist attempt has been politicized ..... etc.

But it is an issue on which many have no problem with politicizing the issue.

I would say it is clearly being played up by the right and down by the left as issues like this always have been. Nothing new.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

As always, it's about "winning" and not what is good for us, for our country. Greed is the supreme ruler, might equals right its most faithful and its strongest minion.

Sad, but I agree.

Originally Posted by richlevy

You might get the best of both worlds, like Ivanka Trump.

[DanaC]

Oh i recall the fear Sundae. I was working in a clothes shop in the arndale centre in Bolton in 1990. We had a couple of bomb scares. All of us filing out and watching as the bomb-squad went in. I lived not far from Warrington, where the young lad got his face blown off. That one, by the way was a horrible accident and the IRA made a public apology for it. he was not their intended victim. Cold comfort. But intentions fdo count for something.

Not all the warnings worked, and not all bombs came with warnings. But the majority on the mainland did.

It was a bloody time. They were engaged in a bloody war, and it was one waged against civlians as much as it was waged against the forces. The attacks on military and police could be seen as a legitimate target. Don't forget police in NI during this period weren't like ordinary bobbies doing their beat, they were one of the arms of the state used to suppress dissent; they were overwhelmingly protestant unionists and deeply antaganonistic to the Catholic civilian population.

I'm not in any way trying to say that what they did was right. Just that they had a legitimate cause. Some of what they did was legitimate martial activity in the face of an occupying and settled oppressor. Some of it was downright despicable. Our state has killed civilians whilst waging war. They killed civilians whilst waging war. The only distinctions were that they were often deliberately targetting civilians (as opposed to them being 'collaterol damage) and they weren't a recognised army.

Those who were imprisoned for terrorist activity were political prisoners. What they did might have been despicable and inhuman. But it was a political fight. There is a difference between them and someone who loses his temper and batters his wife to death; or breaks into a house and steals a TV. It is still criminal; but it is also political.

I was terrified by the threat of bombs. Christmas shopping in Manchester was frightening. Working in a shopping centre a few miles from Warrington was frightening. Much of what the IRA did was beneath contempt; most particularly the things they did to the civilians on their own side; or those accused of collaboration. Such is the nature of that kind of fight. The French resistance were no kinder to 'collaborators' after the war. And I cannot sit here and feel sympathy for the Algerian liberation fighters, and not also have sympathy for those who fought the same battle in NI. No side had clean hands.



[eta] That said, i completely get the point you were initially making. And I agree with you. I can just imagine the response from the White House were the British PM to start trying to tell the President that he should be treating terrorists as political prisoners. In fact i seem to recall the responses to our calls to treat the Guantanemo inmates with something approaching humanity fell on deaf ears during Bush's premiership. It's a lot easier to see the political cause when it isn't being directed specifically at you.

[Undertoad]

What else makes it a global war on terror (although most people don't believe in that right now), is that IRA techniques and strategies have been shared: with the PLO, with Al Q in Iraq, and now with the Taliban.

[DanaC]

And they themselves took lessons from the Algerians and others. Information flows. That's how it works. Lessons are learned. Just as we learn from you and vice versa.

[richlevy]

Good news. We are now safe from 8-year-olds.

From here

The Transportation Security Administration, under scrutiny after last month’s bombing attempt, has on its Web site a “mythbuster” that tries to reassure the public.Myth: The No-Fly list includes an 8-year-old boy.
Buster: No 8-year-old is on a T.S.A. watch list.
“Meet Mikey Hicks,” said Najlah Feanny Hicks, introducing her 8-year-old son, a New Jersey Cub Scout and frequent traveler who has seldom boarded a plane without a hassle because he shares the name of a suspicious person. “It’s not a myth.”
Michael Winston Hicks’s mother initially sensed trouble when he was a baby and she could not get a seat for him on their flight to Florida at an airport kiosk; airline officials explained that his name “was on the list,” she recalled.

I like the way the TSA can lie while telling the truth. There is no 8-year-old on the watch list, but there is an 8-year-old being frisked because his name is on the selectee list.

[Sundae]

I added this to an old thread, so I didn't start yet another one with my inability to get over the past.

Saw this today.
Photos from the Manchester bombing back in 1996. Nothing gory, safe for work.
Although there were injuries from the flying debris this is all about the central blast and shows only damage to streets and buildings.

It was not my town, ever.
But it was my country.
And they smashed it about by.
This isn't a country on the evening news prefaced by the words "Meanwhile, in warn-torn [insert as appropriate]"
Imagine this as your country's second city.
Your shopping district.
Names and shops and streets which are the same as where you live.

No, I will stop now I promise. No-one can change it now, and I do forget for long periods of time. Things like this just blindside me and I find I need to say the same thing all over again.
I'm not making any kind of political or religious point at all. Not this time and maybe it is something I am getting over.

It's a different time and almost a different world.
Except sadly it isn't in global terms.
You don't need desert sand and hot sun to cook your brains.
Or snow and vodka to freeze them.
Or a gun license or lack of.

Build things up, tear them dowm.
My name is Ozymandias etc etc.

Do look at the pics.
They're atmospheric and not at all biased (unlike me).

[glatt]

Yeah. We humans can be evil if we allow ourselves.

[sexobon]

There should be a matchmaking website where people who say they wish they were dead and terrorists can register to find each other.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No good, people who say they wish they were dead only mean emotionally. They want to be numb while they smoke, drink, and dance the hoochie koo.

Whereas terrorists are serious about getting their virgins, and want to take along as many to witness their sexual prowess as possible.

[sexobon]

I see. That's why terrorists like to travel to Britain, Virgin Atlantic.

[Big Sarge]

Why do terrorists want 72 virgins anyway? I far prefer a mature woman who knows what she is doing.