Thank you, America!

[9th Engineer]

You are a proud American, yet you denigrate Americans as weak and uneducated.

The vast majority are, this is not a good time to be an American.

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Even if they go on a massive decapitation rampage, I seriously doubt they'll kill as many as we have with bombs.

Ah, but do not doubt that Saddam had killed far more than we before we got there.

Does anyone know how many people are killed in car accidents or from smoking each year in this country alone? Perhaps tw could provide us with that fact. I'm willing to bet it is around 50,000 per year. How bout smoking - 440,000 deaths per year - JUST IN AMERICA! That is exponentially more deaths than all lives lost due to the war in Iraq.
http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/
If we put the number of deaths from the situation in Iraq into perspective, I believe we may have a different outlook. The media seems to barrage us with "Another death in Iraq" every day and makes it seem much worse than it really is - relatively speaking.
Sorry I put actual facts and figures in here, but I am growing very tired of those spouting misinformation as fact. Not anyone specifically here, especially not DanaC, just in general - the media mostly.

[DanaC]

If we put the number of deaths from the situation in Iraq into perspective, I believe we may have a different outlook. The media seems to barrage us with "Another death in Iraq" every day and makes it seem much worse than it really is - relatively speaking.
Sorry I put actual facts and figures in here, but I am growing very tired of those spouting misinformation as fact. Not anyone specifically here, especially not DanaC, just in general - the media mostly.

I dispute your sources for the Iraqi death toll:


From the BBC News site.

Nevertheless, Iraq Body Count's methods and its ability to compile accurate statistics have been questioned by critics, with some arguing that it has greatly underestimated the number of casualties.

One study, published by the Lancet medical journal in October 2006, suggested that about 655,000 people had died in Iraq as a result of the 2003 invasion.

Originally Posted by yesman065

Ah, but do not doubt that Saddam had killed far more than we before we got there.

In no way does that make an invasion & occupation of a nation that was no threat right. Ever.

[tw]

Originally Posted by yesman065

Ah, but do not doubt that Saddam had killed far more than we before we got there.

Does anyone know how many people are killed in car accidents or from smoking each year in this country alone?

Yesman065 - you claim knowledge using political beliefs. So yes, you would not have numbers. No wonder you post speculations as fact - just like your beloved Limbaugh.

Amazing is the Vietnam deja vue from right wing extremists. Since more people are killed in cars, then we should have no qualms about wasting American soldiers in a war that cannot be won? Why do right wing extremists so hate the American soldier as to advocate that political lie again? I tire of righteous anti-American extremists only doing what previous liars did to my generation in Vietnam. Shame on you Yesman065 for being so hateful of all Americans - especially American soldiers - as to speculate without bothering to first learn facts and numbers. Shame on you for lying that Saddam killed more. Shame on you for doing what others with your anti-American attitude did to justify four dead in Ohio.

Meanwhile Saddam killed about 55 per every day for 10 years. Iraqi civilian deaths only from torture and other violent deaths (dead bodies found abandon in the streets) is now somewhere between 80 and 120 Iraqis per day.

Yesman065 calls this moral? Then he also ignores thousands more dead from sewage in the streets, contaminated drinking water, no electricity, medicine shortages, and even repeated use of the same syringes. Clearly America did not create all this. Only Iraqis can be blamed for this. After all, we have wisdom from Yesman065 - who cannot be bothered to even learn numbers.

That is 80 to 120 deaths from violence and hundreds more per day from various unsanitary living conditions, unknown deaths in rural battles and air attacks, and .... well America has created far more deaths than Saddam did. Once we eliminate Yesman065 radical extremism and instead consult responsible sources (who use science), then Iraqi death rates created by "Mission Accomplished" is something around half a million. Eliminate the myths and lies from Yesman065's beloved Limbaugh and America is the bigger Satan.

Above numbers do not mention millions of Iraqi who have now left Iraq out of fear and who are living in poverty as refugees in other nations. Yes, that number is single digit millions from a country that Rumsfeld (and others here) for years have insisted is safer. Clearly they are in poverty only because it is all their fault.

Makes one wonder if it was god who chose George Jr to be president ... or the devil. We know Yesman065 approves. Shame on Yesman065 for so hating American troops as to speculate, claim that as knowledge, and not even know the numbers. Identified is a greater threat to America – just like those anti-Americans in 1970 who also so hated American troops as to ‘stay the course’; insisting that troops are expendable because more are killed on highways. Yesman065 – only the enemy of every American soldier would post as you just have. You even have the nerve to justify American deaths by citing the highway death rate - as those anti-Americans also did during Vietnam. But again we have a Vietnam deja vue. Yesman065 doing what so many did 30+ years ago to hate the American soldier.

Meanwhile, using Yesman065 logic - since more were dying on American highways that in Iraq, then Saddam really was not a bad guy. Amazing how Yesman065 can speculate because his political agenda somehow sanctifies him.

[9th Engineer]

In no way does that make an invasion & occupation of a nation that was no threat right. Ever.

The same reason why we have no business in Darfur. (There's been alot of activism surrounding that here on campus recently)

We need to get the fuck out of everywhere.
Hell, it would solve a lot of our issues as an added-extra-plus too... our being on holy land is a lot of our problem with the stupid part of the Muslim population.

[yesman065]

rkzenrage and 9th Engineer you both make valid points, yet I was not trying to justify the reasoning behind going to Iraq. It was an attempt to show that the number of casualties is not as great as the media makes it out to be.

tw - I am nothing like Rush Limbaugh and I am not a republican. So as usual, your statements are way off. Again, It is you making assumptions here, not I.

I love this country more than my own life and if you truly knew anything about me that would be blatently honest. You however appear to want to complain, pass judgement and criticize. YOU are an embarrassment to this country, your attitude is almost as bad as your hate & ignorance.

[DanaC]

It was an attempt to show that the number of casualties is not as great as the media makes it out to be.

Nope, the numbers of Iraqi casualties are most likely greater than the media shows.

I love this country more than my own life and if you truly knew anything about me that would be blatently honest. You however appear to want to complain, pass judgement and criticize. YOU are an embarrassment to this country, your attitude is almost as bad as your hate & ignorance.

Blind love does not a patriot make. Every country needs critical and loving citizens, not those who will stand by silently whilst terrible and costly mistakes are made.

The number of casualties are FAR worse than the media shows.
They, the media or the military, do not count those wounded in-country who die later from their injuries in Germany, in transport or the US as a casualty of war (which is STUPID, there is no other word).

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Nope, the numbers of Iraqi casualties are most likely greater than the media shows.

Highly, Highly doubt that, but none of us know with any certainty. I am somehow being construed as a far left republican here and nothing could be further than the truth. I am simply stating that the media's glorification of the number of casualties and is skewed to the left. Thats all. I do not feel that the situation is anywhere near as good as one side says nor as bad as the other makes it seem. I am the only one here not jumping on the "Bush bashing bandwagon" and I've taken a lot of shit for it - thats fine, but lets ALL open our eyes and try to find the truth, which as usual, lies somewhere in between the two extremes.

Originally Posted by DanaC

Blind love does not a patriot make. Every country needs critical and loving citizens, not those who will stand by silently whilst terrible and costly mistakes are made.

I am neither blind nor standing by silently - I am very active locally and very critical of the wrongs in our society that I believe need to be corrected. Just because we have differing views on them does not mean that I am not trying to do my part. In fact, I probably do a lot more than most here who simply choose to criticize me instead. I take your statement very personally and you could not be any more wrong about me.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by yesman065

I am simply stating that the media's glorification of the number of casualties and is skewed to the left.

There are casualties that the media doesn't cover, simply because the media isn't everywhere. And the casualties that the media does cover are confirmed. When they say "43 executed bodies were recovered today in Baghdad", that is the minimum, not the maximum, number of dead.

[tw]

Originally Posted by yesman065

tw - I am nothing like Rush Limbaugh and I am not a republican. So as usual, your statements are way off. Again, It is you making assumptions here, not I.

It walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, and proclaim myths just like the duck. It is a duck no matter how many times the duck denies like George Jr.

You have posted classic contempt for the American soldier. Shame on you for being so anti-American as to spout George Jr lies and to justify the death of American soldiers using highway death numbers. Your contempt may be attributed to blindly believing political liars; unable to separate speculation and political spin from reality. Naivety would then explain why you have posted such contempt of American soldiers and why you preach a 'big dic' solution.

We know the death rates in Iraq are that high - somewhere in the neighborhood of one half million. But then Yesman065 who justified soldier deaths using highway statistics now magically knows those numbers cannot be known? Apparently Yesman065 also believes Saddam had a hand in 11 September.

Scary is that Yesman065 is so politically active when he does not first do simple things such as post supporting facts for his decrees. Same contrast was observed between the bourgeois and intellectual verses the brown shirts in 1930s Germany. The brown shirts were also very active - and blindly believed what they were told by their political extremist handlers. Being active does not mean being smart or informed. Being active and totally ignorant is why we have this lie called "Mission Accomplished" and why bin Laden roams free. When does Yesman065 repeatedly demand that we go after bin Laden? This always results in silence from those who listen and believe Limbaugh rhetoric.

Yes, the brown shirts also loved Germany which was sufficient to justify their actions? That is sufficient to justify Yesman065's comments? Yesman065 has posted classic contempt for the American soldier and does not even apologize for his fubar. Now he hide behind "I love this country". If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it also need not apologize?

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by tw

It walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, and proclaim myths just like the duck. It is a duck no matter how many times the duck denies like George Jr.

Careful tw - you are starting to speculate, guess and assume. Besides that you are, as usual, wrong.

Originally Posted by tw

You have posted classic contempt for the American soldier. Shame on you for being so anti-American as to spout George Jr lies and to justify the death of American soldiers using highway death numbers. Your contempt may be attributed to blindly believing political liars; unable to separate speculation and political spin from reality. Naivety would then explain why you have posted such contempt of American soldiers and why you preach a 'big dic' solution.

No I have not. I have made no attempt to justify anything. I am not blind. I am done with you - you are an asshole and this simply proves it. I have NEVER had nor "spouted" ANY contempt for anyone serving this country. I cannot imagine even you believe the crap that you type.

Originally Posted by tw

We know the death rates in Iraq are that high - somewhere in the neighborhood of one half million. But then Yesman065 who justified soldier deaths using highway statistics now magically knows those numbers cannot be known? Apparently Yesman065 also believes Saddam had a hand in 11 September.

I never said nor assumed as much - I even provided you with statistics from an independent source. No magic, no rhetoric, just printed statistics. And when they don't suit your needs you disregard them. Oh yeah - Go fuck yourself. America NEEDS a lot less Americans like you.

Originally Posted by tw

Scary is that Yesman065 is so politically active when he does not first do simple things such as post supporting facts for his decrees. Same contrast was observed between the bourgeois and intellectual verses the brown shirts in 1930s Germany. The brown shirts were also very active - and blindly believed what they were told by their political extremist handlers. Being active does not mean being smart or informed. Being active and totally ignorant is why we have this lie called "Mission Accomplished" and why bin Laden roams free. When does Yesman065 repeatedly demand that we go after bin Laden? This always results in silence from those who listen and believe Limbaugh rhetoric.

Not only are you AGAIN completely inaccurate, but you have made rash and unsubstantiated assumptions again. Something which you routinely accuse and admonish others of doing. I NEVER said one word about Bin Laden, not one. Nor Limbaugh whom you despise so much. To know everything he thinks, believes and says, you must be listening to him an awful lot. Otherwise its just more assumptions or speculations, and we KNOW you wouldn't do that - After all you act so High & mighty even though you couldn't possibly act any lower.

Originally Posted by tw

Yes, the brown shirts also loved Germany which was sufficient to justify their actions? That is sufficient to justify Yesman065's comments? Yesman065 has posted classic contempt for the American soldier and does not even apologize for his fubar. Now he hide behind "I love this country". If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it also need not apologize?

WHAT??? Is that even english? You are either seriously deranged or seriously deranged - you choose. I'm done.

[tw]

Originally Posted by yesman065

I'm done.

Yesman065 has disparaged American soldiers and still will not apologize for his naive fubar. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck .... So classic of those who know only because Limbaugh told them it is so. So classic of those who blindly support a lying president and who always know without even grasping (or posting) supporting facts, reasons, and the numbers. This is the reason for "Mission Accomplished" and a latest contemptible spin - 'stay the course' also called 'go long'.

Notice the latest Yesman065 reply. Deny and accuse. Deny and accuse. Yesman065 still does not post an apology for justifying American troop deaths using highway statistics. Deny and accuse without facts and numbers. That brown shirt tactic is also a characteristic of Limbaugh logic. Even Limbaugh would backhand apologize for his attacks on Michael J Fox. Yesman065 still will not post an apology to America and the troops ... because is walks like a duck and talks like a duck...