The Obamanation

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Gruwald says the stimulus saved us from a second great depression.
If that's true, then it was a bad thing. It appears that's what it will take to get people to wake the fuck up to what's been going on for the last 30 years. Apparently there are still too many people doing too well, to create enough interest in straightening congress out.

There's enough people doing really, really, really well who want to preserve the status quo and retain their immunity from the laws the rest of us are expected to follow. Wealthy tea party members establish PAC's to get their right wing wacko candidates elected. Upper echelon members of the government routinely smooth the way for lucrative contracts for large companies whose CEO's have deep pockets - deep pockets to keep the money flowing to the correct party and candidates. Naturally, these CEO's can do whatever they feel like and no one raises so much as an eyebrow.

Convert to the Church of the Latter Day Saints now and avoid the rush.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Not only the "people doing really, really, really well", there are a shitload of people not doing as well as they were, but still employed, hanging on, and getting by. They're scared because the know if they lose their job they're well and truly fucked, so they don't want to rock the boat. They'll likely plug their ears, say nanananana, and vote for the party they always voted for.

It will take a real depression to piss these people off enough to clean house. The Teaparty played to the disgruntled mood of the country with congress, but see who it attracted. People that were comparatively well off, and not pissed off enough to really think about who they were voting for. How else would you explain Christine O'Donnell in Delaware.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Not only the "people doing really, really, really well", there are a shitload of people not doing as well as they were, but still employed, hanging on, and getting by. They're scared because the know if they lose their job they're well and truly fucked, so they don't want to rock the boat. They'll likely plug their ears, say nanananana, and vote for the party they always voted for.

It will take a real depression to piss these people off enough to clean house. The Teaparty played to the disgruntled mood of the country with congress, but see who it attracted. People that were comparatively well off, and not pissed off enough to really think about who they were voting for. How else would you explain Christine O'Donnell in Delaware.

Lacking cable or even a TV, I had to look up O'Donnell on the net. I like this quote of hers in 2007 on the O'Reilly Factor. O'Donnell said, "American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains. So they’re already into this experiment.”

Where's Mickey when we need him?

The fact that people actually vote for her shows just how ignorant and intolerant American voters have become. The far right is engaging in what amounts to the politics of hatred. I think that as much as anything influences Joe Six Pack when he enters the polling booth. I don't know if a deepening economic crisis would influence old Joe much. If he lost his job, he'd probably blame the flag burners in Congress who oppose giving big corporations even more tax breaks than they already get, pander to "welfare queens," and won't give the little guy a break by cutting taxes on the wealthy. Surely all those rich people who suddenly have extra money would use it to buy fancy items at the hardware store Joe was laid off from.

What Joe refuses to understand is that big corporations use their tax breaks to give zillion dollar raises to their CEO's - not create new jobs; that welfare queens actually constitute only about 20% of those who receive assistance from social programs - 80% of the beneficiaries of these programs are the elderly and the disabled; and the rich bitch from the snappy gated community was already buying her gold faucets from some chic overseas outfit and would never be caught dead in Joe's hardware shop.

Americans today are ignorant and mean and they scare me.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Not only the "people doing really, really, really well", there are a shitload of people not doing as well as they were, but still employed, hanging on, and getting by. They're scared because the know if they lose their job they're well and truly fucked, so they don't want to rock the boat. They'll likely plug their ears, say nanananana, and vote for the party they always voted for.

It will take a real depression to piss these people off enough to clean house. The Teaparty played to the disgruntled mood of the country with congress, but see who it attracted. People that were comparatively well off, and not pissed off enough to really think about who they were voting for. How else would you explain Christine O'Donnell in Delaware.

I don't disagree with you but I don't know if people will just "wake up" if the situation gets bad enough. It would be the hopeful possibility but xenophobia et al. is the other option, which would just make a horrible situation worse. Many genocides (Rwanda and Nazi's for example) are the result of populations getting pushed to the edge and taking it out on people who had no control over the situation in the first place.

[ZenGum]

So this "relief" consists of losing your house and walking away with nothing, but at least they don't keep chasing you for more? Thanks, banks.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

So this "relief" consists of losing your house and walking away with nothing,
but at least they don't keep chasing you for more? Thanks, banks.

Ummm... I don't think I would describe it that way.

The article also talks about some of the foreclosures being settled
by "home equity loans", while others were "short sales".

I think this would mean that for those owners who had significant equity
(e.g., more than 20% of loan-to-value), they could end up staying in their homes,
and paying a reduced monthly payment (but probably at a higher interest rate).

The short sales were likely the people who became "owners" with very little down payment.
For them, they had little/no equity in the property, and so lived in the house
while making mortgage payments that were essentially all interest.
(aka "rent")
For these people, I would say they essentially had nothing to walk away from,
but they preserved their credit ratings, and maybe some dignity.

The people who were really screwed by all this were those whose foreclosures
had already been completed, and they had been forced off of their property.
They lost their home, their credit rating, and many other valuables.
And the maximum they received from this "settlement" was $2,000.

[Lamplighter]

And the beat goes on...


NY Journal
9/28/12

Bank of America to Pay $2.43 Billion to Settle Suit Over Merrill Deal

Bank of America announced on Friday that it would pay $2.43 billion
to settle a class action lawsuit related to its acquisition of Merrill Lynch,
as the legal woes continue for the financial institution.
<snip>

Early in the financial crisis, Bank of America looked to be one of the winners.
As other banks struggled to stay afloat, the firm swooped in to buy
Countrywide Financial, the mortgage lender, in 2008.
Later that year, Bank of America agreed to purchase Merrill Lynch, the beleaguered investment bank.
But both deals are proving to be a legal albatross.

Countrywide’s mortgage problems have weighed on profits for awhile.
In the second quarter of 2011, the bank reported an $8.8 billion loss,
mainly related to a settlement with mortgage investors.

Earlier this year, Bank of America and four other banks agreed to a
$26 billion settlement related to their foreclosure practices.
Now, it faces a similar burden from the Merrill Lynch deal.
Bank of America said it would take a $1.6 billion hit related to the settlement
and other legal expenses.

And this too...

NY Times
STEVEN M. DAVIDOFF
9/27/12
A $50 Billion Claim of Havoc Looms for Bank of America
<snip>
This episode also spawned a lawsuit from the Securities and Exchange Commission
that Bank of America, Mr. Lewis and Joseph Price, the former chief financial officer,
settled for $150 million.

Judge Jed S. Rakoff of the Federal District Court in Manhattan approved the deal
but complained that it didn’t sufficiently penalize the individuals involved.
The amount was paid by Bank of America with no liability for Mr. Lewis or Mr. Price.
Judge Rakoff called the settlement “half-baked justice at best.”
Judge Rakoff may see his wish for greater penalties granted.
The New York attorney general’s office has a lawsuit on the matter.<snip>

[Lamplighter]

Yes, the beat goes on...


Wall Street Journal
JEAN EAGLESHAM And DAN FITZPATRICK
10/01/12

J.P. Morgan Sued on Mortgage Bonds

New York's top prosecutor filed a civil complaint against J.P. Morgan Chase Co.,
alleging widespread fraud by the company's Bear Stearns unit in the sale
of mortgage-backed securities in the run-up to the financial crisis.

Eric Schneiderman, New York's attorney general, filed the civil lawsuit
in New York state court Monday. The case is the first brought under the aegis of
a law enforcement group that was formed by President Barack Obama in January
to pursue alleged wrongdoing related to the financial crisis.

More cases from the group are expected to follow.
"We intend to follow up with similar actions against other sponsors and underwriters of RMBS,"
said an official in the attorney general's office.

The allegations relate to billions of dollars of subprime securities
issued by Bear Stearns Cos. before the troubled firm, now owned by J.P.Morgan, collapsed in 2008.
The suit alleges that losses on residential-mortgage securities issued by Bear Stearns
in 2006 and 2007 alone were "astounding," totaling $22.5 billion, or more than a quarter
of the original principal balance. The action asks that the company be made to pay
an undisclosed amount of damages "caused, directly or indirectly, by the fraudulent and deceptive acts."

New York's attorney general filed a civil complaint against J.P. Morgan Chase alleging
widespread fraud in the sale of mortgage-backed securities in the run-up to the financial crisis.
<snip>

[richlevy]

From here

I agree with this guy. Frankly, I'm embarrassed by the rudeness of the opposition in this country.

here was a time not so long ago when Americans, regardless of their political stripes, rallied round their president. Once elected, the man who won the White House was no longer viewed as a republican or democrat, but the President of the United States. The oath of office was taken, the wagons were circled around the country’s borders and it was America versus the rest of the world with the president of all the people at the helm.

The health-care debate, which looked more like extreme fighting in a mud pit than a national dialogue, revealed a very vulgar side of America. President Obama’s face appeared on protest signs white-faced and blood-mouthed in a satanic clown image. In other tasteless portrayals, people who disagreed with his position distorted his face to look like Hitler complete with mustache and swastika.
Odd, that burning the flag makes Americans crazy, but depicting the president as a clown and a maniacal fascist is accepted as part of the new rude America.

[classicman]

...regardless of their political stripes, rallied round their president. Once elected, the man who won the White House was no longer viewed as a republican or democrat, but the President of the United States.

Still many who feel that way regardless of what this crappy POS site says.
Here's the link http://theobamadiary.com/tag/hes/

And there are PLENTY of pics of Bush and virtually every president since the 50's with some sort of Hitler reference. Bush did get a movie made about him being assassinated too. To say that this crap started with Obama is Bullshit.

[Lamplighter]

I live in a city that is very well off... good schools, expensive houses, etc.

When the housing crisis began there was little effect here for quite a while.
But eventually, it did hit, and home sales slumped and then prices fell.
Construction of new homes slowed and building permits dropped.

I've heard that places that were slowest to be hit by the crisis would be the first to show the recovery.
And last week as I was driving around town, I noticed several new construction sites.

Today, I came across this article.
Maybe, just maybe, the worst is over.


Bloomberg
10/17/12

Housing Starts in U.S. Surged in September to Four-Year High

Housing starts in the U.S. surged 15 percent in September
to the highest level in four years, adding to signs the industry at the
heart of the financial crisis is on the road to recovery.

Starts jumped to a 872,000 annual rate last month, the most since July 2008
and exceeding all forecasts in a Bloomberg survey of economists,
Commerce Department figures showed today in Washington.



The median estimate of 81 economists surveyed by Bloomberg called for 770,000.
An increase in building permits may mean the gains will be sustained.

<snip>

Building permits, a proxy for future construction, jumped to an 894,000 annual rate,
also exceeding the median forecast and the most since July 2008.
They were projected to rise to 810,000, with a range of 780,000 to 850,000.

The number of permits swelled by 45.1 percent since September 2011,
the biggest annual jump since 1983.

Construction of single-family houses climbed 11 percent from August to a 603,000 rate.
Work on multifamily homes, such apartment buildings, increased 25.1 percent
to an annual rate of 269,000.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Maybe, just maybe, the worst is over.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Maybe, just maybe, the worst is over.

Also a report on the news yesterday that defaults on loans, credit cards, and mortgages is steadily dropping a significant amount.

I know people who weren't hit nearly as bad by this recession as many were. They were working, paying their bills, with no wolves at the door. Sure their house was worth less, but they weren't planning on selling or borrowing against it anyway, so it only made a difference on paper, not lifestyle. Their stocks dropped in value, but most have come back.
But in the constant barrage of 24 hour news, virtually every news story included the tag line, "in this economy". Plus the political campaign is telling us doom & gloom is the order of the day. So even these people that skated fairly well through it all, talk constantly how bad things are.
The recession will be over when the public perceives it to be over, regardless of the unemployment rate.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Also a report on the news yesterday that defaults on loans, credit cards, and mortgages is steadily dropping a significant amount.

I know people who weren't hit nearly as bad by this recession as many were. They were working, paying their bills, with no wolves at the door. Sure their house was worth less, but they weren't planning on selling or borrowing against it anyway, so it only made a difference on paper, not lifestyle. Their stocks dropped in value, but most have come back.
But in the constant barrage of 24 hour news, virtually every news story included the tag line, "in this economy". Plus the political campaign is telling us doom & gloom is the order of the day. So even these people that skated fairly well through it all, talk constantly how bad things are.
The recession will be over when the public perceives it to be over, regardless of the unemployment rate.

Another well spoken post. The recession *is* over, our economy has stopped receding some time ago. We're in a depression, a depressed economy now, but no one wants to call it that either.

Actually, xoB, you understate your point which is self-evident. It's so true that it defies refutation. You sound like you're channeling FDR:

Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds.

among others

[Lamplighter]

There's a new dog on the block... with BIG teeth

NY Times
BEN PROTESS and MICHAEL J. DE LA MERCED
11/2/12

FERC Takes Aim at Wall Street

Wall Street finds itself in a bare-knuckle brawl with a government agency.<snip>

The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, the government watchdog overseeing
the oil, natural gas and electricity business, has lately taken aim at three major banks
suspected of manipulating energy prices.
After taking action against JPMorgan Chase and Deutsche Bank,
the agency on Wednesday threatened to impose its largest fine ever against Barclays.<snip>

The banks sense that a larger regulatory battle is at stake.
Unlike financial regulators, the energy commission can fine firms $1 million a day for every violation.
The string of recent cases, banks fear, could lay the groundwork for years of costly litigation.

The agency’s effort is rooted in a 2005 law passed in the aftermath of the Enron fraud.
The law created an enforcement unit at the agency and gave it the authority to assess hefty fines.

Under the Obama administration, the enforcement unit expanded
its ranks and received a nearly 50 percent budget increase.
The unit, which this year created a specialized group to analyze arcane data
and detect manipulation, also hired seasoned criminal investigators.
<snip>

The commission disclosed this summer that it was investigating JPMorgan Chase
over potential manipulation of markets in California and the Midwest,
exploring whether the firm had engaged in abusive bidding for energy prices.
The fight also centers on a technical issue: whether JPMorgan must turn over internal e-mail.
The bank initially refused to turn over documents to the California agency
that oversees the state’s power grid, citing attorney-client privilege.
In September, the federal energy commission ordered the bank to produce evidence
that it had not violated market rules, or risk losing its license to sell power at market rates.
Last month, JPMorgan apologized and turned over some of the documents,
blaming miscommunication for the impasse<snip>.
The broader inquiry into the bank continues.