08-01-2005, 11:21 AM | #137 |
changed his status to single
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Right behind you. No, the other side.
Posts: 10,308
|
two completely different sets of circumstances BigV. a newly adopted (previously abused and neglected) child being restrained and held by a new parent to prevent injury vs. a child in school being a complete demon. if the schoolkid's parent had bothered to show up then they could have chosen to pin her down and love her - that isn't the role of a teacher or a cop.
the teacher is there to teach a number of kids. if one is out of control you remove that child. spending inordinate amounts of time "loving" that child into a calm rational state would be an incorrect use of the teacher's time and energy.
__________________
Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin |
08-01-2005, 12:01 PM | #138 |
I think this line's mostly filler.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
|
Whereas arresting a five-year-old having a temper tantrum is a correct use of the time and energy of the police.
__________________
_________________ |...............| We live in the nick of times. | Len 17, Wid 3 | |_______________| [pics] |
08-01-2005, 12:07 PM | #139 |
changed his status to single
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Right behind you. No, the other side.
Posts: 10,308
|
i don't know - i wasn't there. i do know that if she is destructive and cannot be controlled in the classroom she needs to be removed. if the parent or guardian was contacted but didn't show up and the destructive behavior continues then there aren't a lot of attractive options. i went to a school that would have just pummeled my ass if i had behaved like that. i had parents that would have crushed my ass when i got home if i behaved like that. maybe that knowledge is why i never behaved like that. maybe, just maybe, this kid might remember getting tossed into the back of a squad car next time and not go on a little rampage.
__________________
Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin |
08-01-2005, 12:23 PM | #140 |
I think this line's mostly filler.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
|
That's what the principal is for.
I just found it odd that your complaint was about wasting a teacher's time, and your solution was an even bigger waste of police time.
__________________
_________________ |...............| We live in the nick of times. | Len 17, Wid 3 | |_______________| [pics] |
08-01-2005, 12:40 PM | #141 |
changed his status to single
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Right behind you. No, the other side.
Posts: 10,308
|
yeah, i know HM. i've got mixed feelings on this. i understand what BigV is saying. love the kids. my beef is with the idea that the teacher should just love the kids into compliance - eff that. they are there to teach. if one child disrupts the learning experience for the rest of the kids - get rid of that kid. yes i know that is cold and callous but i don't care. if the teacher is forced to take time away from the other kids to deal with an unruly brat who obviously has no parental involvement in their discipline, that is just not right.
as far as the cops? that is their job - to respond to problems. school calls and says we've got an out of control child and the parents aren't coming - the cops respond. they subdue, restrain, and remove the child. the cops did their job and the teacher can get back to doing theirs.
__________________
Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin |
08-01-2005, 01:15 PM | #142 | |
I think this line's mostly filler.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
|
Quote:
__________________
_________________ |...............| We live in the nick of times. | Len 17, Wid 3 | |_______________| [pics] |
|
08-01-2005, 01:16 PM | #143 |
lobber of scimitars
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phila Burbs
Posts: 20,774
|
I thought we had covered this at least partially ... school policy doesn't allow the staff to contact the students. Their hands are tied, if you'll excuse the expression, so they have to go to the next step (calling the cops) to control an out of control child.
__________________
wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis |
08-01-2005, 01:29 PM | #144 |
I think this line's mostly filler.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
|
I'm not assigning blame, since I don't know all the rules and regulations the teacher/principal/police were operating under. But I am saying that there is blame to be assigned, on the part of the school. If it's the rulemakers, so be it. I decried zero tolerance policies earlier on this thread, and that also applies to zero tolerance policies against teachers touching students.
__________________
_________________ |...............| We live in the nick of times. | Len 17, Wid 3 | |_______________| [pics] |
08-01-2005, 01:48 PM | #145 | ||
Goon Squad Leader
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 27,063
|
I didn't revive this thread to reignite the sh*tstorm. I wanted to draw attention to a beautiful essay. There *was* a line in there that reminded me of my thoughts surrounding the thread, something along the lines of ...
Quote:
Quote:
In the second story, the powerful good that can come from using is showcased triumphantly. The stories are very different, but they share an identical core: A totally freaked out little kid, and an adult that has the chance to use that power for good.
__________________
Be Just and Fear Not. |
||
08-01-2005, 02:31 PM | #146 | |
Gone and done
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,808
|
Quote:
- Pie
__________________
per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not. |
|
08-01-2005, 03:07 PM | #147 | |
dar512 is now Pete Zicato
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago suburb
Posts: 4,968
|
Quote:
The teachers at my wife's school are warned at the beginning of every year what the restrictions are. They are told not to even attempt to handle situations like this. The principal or the vice-principal must be called in immediately. Gradeschool teachers make little enough as it is. I would be very upset with my wife if she risked everything we own on an out of control kid. Question - would the cops in the situation have been open for lawsuits if they physically restrained the child instead of using handcuffs?
__________________
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller |
|
08-01-2005, 03:28 PM | #148 |
Goon Squad Leader
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 27,063
|
Pie, I'm sorry to hear about the sad story of your little brother. My sympathies.
He wasn't 5 or 6 years old when he signed off, was he? I hope not. Respectfully, your experience posted here notwithstanding, I must disagree with your conclusion that a great many people are beyond the power of love. (Or perhaps you meant beyond the power of touch--I believe that is possible, but there are more ways to express love than through touch.) I wield that power, inexpertly at best. I have many chances every day to respond to the world around me and the people in it. My actions reflect this belief when I am at my best. Unfortunately, I am not always at my best. But that does not diminsh the power of love, nor my belief in it. It does motivate me to strive to become better. And so far, that striving has always been in the direction of more love, never in the direction of less love.
__________________
Be Just and Fear Not. |
08-01-2005, 03:54 PM | #149 | |
Goon Squad Leader
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 27,063
|
Quote:
The adoptor had the right, privelege and the obligation to hold that little boy. In a situation like that, what other way could communicate what had to be communicated? Language barrier, social barriers, literally strangers, traumatized, out of control child, and dangers to the child all around. How do you get the message through? How do you get the attention first so that other obstacles can be overcome? I will freely acknowledge that every situation has its own unique considerations. But I think you and I will agree that to get something across to another person, you must first have that person's attention. I could blather on here without end, but without your attention which you generously give, it would matter not at all. (It may also be true that even with your attention, it would not matter, but I say attention is necessary, not sufficient.) I did call my school and the rules there are that the teacher is permitted to use their judgement. That judgement may include "touching" or holding the child. A common sense understanding. I agree with the policy, and I hope common sense reigns when my son or daughter is the child in question. That includes the actions of the principal and the vice-principal when they're called to action. As to the police officers' options--we live in a litigious society. I think the difficult work they do puts them in harm's way on the street and in the court, with only some respect to their actions. Sometimes they're wrongly accused, sometimes their misdeeds go unpunished, and sometimes justice prevails.
__________________
Be Just and Fear Not. |
|
08-01-2005, 09:26 PM | #150 | |
The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
|
Quote:
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|