Well, This is Going to be a Lousy Situation

[monster]

Originally Posted by Elspode

I get all the debt...except $55k in student loans. :-)

Why?

[classicman]

Still her student loans are *HERS* alone. That wouldn't be considered mutual debt unless you signed off on them (I believe)
That shouldn't even be on the table.
Idealistically it should be 1/2 of whatever debt the two of you accrued together/2.

Jus sayin.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by classicman

Still her student loans are *HERS* alone. That wouldn't be considered mutual debt unless you signed off on them (I believe)
That shouldn't even be on the table.
Idealistically it should be 1/2 of whatever debt the two of you accrued together/2.

Jus sayin.

I think it might come under the "the loans allowed her to get the job which allowed her to contribute to the lifestyle to which 'Spode had become accustomed, Your Honor" argument. Not sure, though.

'Spode, who owns the house? Will there be a profit from its sale?

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I think it might come under the "the loans allowed her to get the job which allowed her to contribute to the lifestyle to which 'Spode had become accustomed, Your Honor" argument. Not sure, though.

'Spode, who owns the house? Will there be a profit from its sale?

Spexx, yes, that would fit. Not so much extravagant, just money spent to keep it all rolling. It really is an honest claim.

No, no profit likely. We paid $165k about 30 seconds before the bubble burst. If it short sold for $130k, I'd be blissful, in this market. Fuck, I'd be blissful if it sold at all.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by classicman

Still her student loans are *HERS* alone. That wouldn't be considered mutual debt unless you signed off on them (I believe)
That shouldn't even be on the table.
Idealistically it should be 1/2 of whatever debt the two of you accrued together/2.

Jus sayin.

At least half of her student loan debt was accrued during our marriage, and a great deal of that money went towards mutual expenses. Legally, can I get away with it? Sure...but I'm moral, not legal.

[ZenGum]

I agree with classic. I'd also be deducting the money you paid her in the last few months for rent and utilities which she apparently embezzled.

But if, as you say, bankruptcy is inevitable, #$%& it, take on all dischargable debt and scuttle the lot.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

I agree with classic. I'd also be deducting the money you paid her in the last few months for rent and utilities which she apparently embezzled.

But if, as you say, bankruptcy is inevitable, #$%& it, take on all dischargable debt and scuttle the lot.

I'm sure that she probably kept some of my bill money to fund her exit. She paid deposit on an apartment, painted it (I know, right?), bought a couple of odds and ends items for it, although she's got more shit than will ever fit in it, and paid her lawyer. However, her grandmother has been funding the shortfall for our household for a few months now, and also paid the retainer for the lawyer. We have been chronically behind on our debts for...well...years. I have no reason to believe the she embezzled anything. We didn't have much to begin with.

The ultimate goal is to simply make the sixteen years of our union come out equitably. So far, I haven't agreed to anything that I don't find reasonable by my own dead reckoning. No, I would NOT cut my wrists if she asked me to. If I was a dickhead, I'd get a lawyer, and fight her tooth and nail for every dime, and could probably come out a lot better. That might be legal, but it wouldn't be fair. It wouldn't be moral.

Money comes and goes, but Karma is forever.

[Aliantha]

It just really sucks that you have to go through this Els. I really hope that when the dust settles you really are in a better place emotionally, physically and financially.

love.

xx

[infinite monkey]

Student loans and bankruptcy:

Student loans are difficult, but not impossible, to discharge in bankruptcy. To do so, you must show that payment of the debt “will impose an undue hardship on you and your dependents.”

UNDUE HARDSHIP EXAMPLES

It is up to the court to decide whether you meet the “undue hardship” standard. Here are a few examples of successful and unsuccessful cases.

1.A 58 year old I.R.S. employee making about $38,000/year was able to get his loans discharged. He had taken out the loans to attend a chiropractic program which he never completed. His overall expenses were about equal to his income. He was able to show that it was unlikely that his income would increase until his planned retirement at age 65. He was single with no dependents and had health problems. The court found that he had acted in good faith even though he had never made any voluntary student loan payments.
2.A college-educated married couple proved undue hardship and were able to discharge their loans. They both worked, but had income barely above poverty level. The court noted that the borrowers worked in worthwhile, although low-paying careers. One worked as a teacher’s aide and the other as a teacher working with emotionally disturbed children. Even with a very frugal budget, they had $400 more a month in expenses than income. Their expenses included $100 monthly tuition to send their daughter to private school. Relatives paid for most of this and the couple testified that they objected to the public school’s corporeal punishment policy. In agreeing to discharge the loans, the court also found that the couple had acted in good faith because they asked about the possibility of a more affordable repayment plan. Not all courts are as sympathetic to borrowers who work in low-paying careers. For example, one borrower was denied a discharge because he worked as a cellist for an orchestra and taught music part-time. The court suggested that this borrower could find higher-paying work. Another court came up with the same result for a pastor. The court found that it was the borrower’s choice to work as a pastor for a start-up church rather than try to find a higher paying job.
3.A number of courts have granted discharges in cases where the borrower did not benefit from the education or went to a fraudulent school.
4.There have been mixed results when borrowers have tried to show that their financial difficulties will persist into the future. For example, one court found that a borrower’s alcoholism was not an insurmountable problem, but some borrowers have won these cases. In one case, a borrower’s testimony about her mental impairment, including evidence that she received Social Security benefits, was enough to convince the court of undue hardship. The court agreed with the borrower that her ongoing mental illness was likely to continue to interfere with her ability to work.

Article here for more info:

http://www.studentloanborrowerassist...rg/bankruptcy/

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

Student loans and bankruptcy:






Article here for more info:

http://www.studentloanborrowerassist...rg/bankruptcy/

If she could do this, we would, of course, renegotiate the rest of our debt. I'll provide this info to her. Thanks! Even if this wasn't your intent.

[skysidhe]

morning frown face 'cause, if she asked you, spode, to cut your wrists too, seems like you'd comply. Could be just morning brain fog though.

Maybe I shouldn't be thinking out loud.

[BigV]

In my experience, fair is a good goal. And your dead reckoning is the best gauge of this. Also, there's no rule that says it needs to come out to the same number to four significant digits. Fair's fair, you'll know it when you see it.

I don't agree about the lawyer part though. Keep in mind, her lawyer IS WORKING FOR HER, NOT FOR YOU. Do not lose sight of this fact. However, retaining your own lawyer for some hot lawyer on lawyer action, definitely doubles (or more) your expenses, and let's face it, your payments to the lawyer(s) come right off the top of your resources. There's a valid argument for avoiding them (at all costs, nyuk nyuk nyuk).

You will be living with your own decision forever, those are the ones you have to make sure you're making well. You are a smart man, a good man. You can trust yourself.

[plthijinx]

Originally Posted by BigV

....I don't agree about the lawyer part though. Keep in mind, her lawyer IS WORKING FOR HER, NOT FOR YOU. Do not lose sight of this fact. However, retaining your own lawyer for some hot lawyer on lawyer action, definitely doubles (or more) your expenses, and let's face it, your payments to the lawyer(s) come right off the top of your resources. There's a valid argument for avoiding them (at all costs, nyuk nyuk nyuk).......

DUDE trust me on this one. i let my exwife handle the divorce back in 03 and lemme tell ya. yeah i got to keep the house but i got truly phucked otherwise. over 50k worth of credit card debt we accrued together. if i could do it again i'd of ponied up the cash for my lawyer.

[skysidhe]

You are a good man spode. You have a big heart.

[infinite monkey]

I understand, els.

I pretty much walked away, and left most everything behind. I didn't fight for the house or any of that stuff. People thought I was batty but I couldn't see it. A marriage with a best friend was ending, and I wanted as little pain as possible. I got my car, and my stuff.

I didn't really want the house anyway. He's still living there and has a roomie and I'm glad he's been able to hold onto it.

(Of course, who woulda thunk that my best friend, years later, would buy the house across the street!)

'course, if we'd still been living in the amazing apartment at the biggest mansion in town (rented) I would have stayed there in a heartbeat.

We make choices on what's best for us, each individual. What was best for me was to just let it all go. Whether that was wise on my part (not putting my already tentative grasp on mental health on the line) or really stupid (too wimpy to go through it all) it doesn't matter. End result the same.

I'm glad that SL info might be helpful.