Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Radar

Yes, the majority of Jews were not in Israel and came back. But there were always Jews in Israel for every minute of the last 3,000 years. In fact they were the majority for most of those years.

Radar's second last post

There were Jews living in Israel for the past 3,000 years, but they have no been the majority since before the 5th century BC. Between the 5th and 12th (??) it has been Christians and then Muslims up to this day. So both Christians and Muslims have just as much right to that land as Jews have.

Source (Look at second graph):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...y_demographics

They built houses with their own money on land they never owned. In fact the UK didn't give any land to those people until 1947. The ones who lived on the wrong side of the line had to move out.

Wrong. They have a right to private property ownership too. Building a house on someone else's property does not grant you ownership. They can also lose land in military disputes as has happened for thousands of years. When they attack Israel and they lose land, they have no valid complaints.

Both these arguments are basically the same so I will combine them.

One question. How would the Palestinians have gotten "ownership" of the land they build their houses on?

And once again, you are foolishly support colonization. The people that live on the land should have control over it, not some country over a thousand miles away.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Radar

False. My argument for Israel becoming a state AGAIN has nothing to do with it being a state earlier, though having a small portion of the land that was historically the homeland of the Jews is cool. My argument for Israel becoming a state was that the rightful owners (the U.K.) GAVE the land to the Jews to build a new homeland in a portion of their historical one.

Fuck that shit, the people who live in Palestine should be deciding what is happening to their homeland, whether they own it or not, not a country thousands of miles away. That is the whole point of the American Revolution, freedom from oppression, and then you justify the oppressive actions of colonization later on just because it works in your interests, bullshit. The people that were living in Palestine should have decided what happened, not the British.

This is unrelated to my reasons for supporting the legitimate state of Israel. But even so, the Indians did not ever own land. Indians didn't even believe land could be owned. They thought of land as a living organism that belonged to whatever god they happened to believe in.

Land can't be stolen from those who never owned it.

Just because they didn't own land in the European way doesn't mean they didn't have a right to live there. The fact is that people were living there for thousands of years and we kicked them out, whether the fit your bullshit definition of "owning" land or not, they still lived there.

And your views are wrong, just because some American Indians didn't believe that land could be owned doesn't mean all of them didn't. There were cultures much different than the plain Indian culture, which only occurred after European settlers came to North America by the way.

The so-called Palestinian people did not live there for 3,000 years

Oh really, then where did they come from?

Lets look at genetics:

Nebel et al. regard their findings in good agreement with historical evidence that suggest that "Part, or perhaps the majority, of the Muslim Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD... These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistoric times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...al_populations

and most certainly NEVER owned any of the land. If I build a house on your land without your knowledge and live there for 40 years, I don't have any legitimate claim to your land.

What is your definition of owning land? And please back up your analogy, I'm calling bullshit on it. Show me where Palestinians built houses on land without someone's knowledge.

Also, your laughable claim that the Jews had moved away for 2,000 years is entirely false.

A lot of Jews living in that area moved away when the temple was destroyed, but no, not all of them moved away. Yet, most of the Jews or Christians converted to Islam, hence why Muslims were and are the majority from the 12th century to today.

Look at the second graph down:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...y_demographics

I certainly support private property ownership. In fact, private property ownership is the foundation of all human rights.

Then why are justifying the action of kicking people out of their homes that they privately owned. You can say the British owned Palestine all you want but the fact is that individual Palestinians owned individual land and houses before Israel was created.

Your 1 in a thousand numbers are ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of so-called Palestinian people support the murder of Jews, and deny the right of Israel to exist. The number who been involved in planning, assisting, or carrying out attacks against Israeli Jews is closer to 2-5% than 1%.

This is controversial. I've heard that the majority of Palestinians want peace but can not do it with Israel pressing down on them. I can't find my source to back mine up but whatever. And just because they elected Hamas does not mean they support their views, Hamas was basically the only choice they had considering how corrupt and run down Fatah was.

The percentage is irrelevant though. Those who don't take part in the attacks shelter, and protect those who do. This makes them just as guilty as those doing it. The so-called Palestinian people are endangering their own people by hiding among them after attacking Jews.

How so? If you are talking about hospitals and schools that is a load of shit. Hamas and them run hospitals, schools, etc so you can't expect Palestinians to just avoid those places.

Peace would exist tomorrow if the so-called Palestinians would just stop killing Jews. The problem is they aren't interested in peace. They are only interested in killing Jews and wiping Israel off the map which will NEVER happen. Israel will be around even after America is gone.

I call bullshit on this. I guarantee that most Palestinians will be happy with a one-state solution, something Israel hasn't considered either. Also, just focusing on physical violence is very biased in this situation. Israel can hurt Palestinians without physical violence while Palestinians can not. Israel can punish Palestinians by flipping a switch, so directly comparing those two is very flawed.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

But that's not the end of the story. After that, the Lakota people indoctrinated their children in hate and taught them to attack the white settlers with terror and assymetrical tactics.

And if America was taken over by communists and everything Americans once knew of was destroyed in the 1960s you think the same thing wouldn't happen?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

My argument for Israel becoming a state was that the rightful owners (the U.K.) GAVE the land to the Jews to build a new homeland in a portion of their historical one.

Because one country gives another country something that never belonged to them to give away does not support the notion that the action was legitimate or right. You point holds no water, or sand, whatever the case may be.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Because one country gives another country something that never belonged to them to give away does not support the notion that the action was legitimate or right. You point holds no water, or sand, whatever the case may be.

You are neglecting the indisputable fact that it DID belong to them because it was won in battle. The UK owned the land. Before that the Turks owned it, Before that the Roman's owned it, etc.

This is how border disputes and land ownership have always been decided throughout history.

The UK were the rightful owners of land and they gave it to create a few different countries. People that previously lived on that land (whether it was for a day or a thousand years) had no legitimate claim of ownership.

Merely living on land does not make it yours and the number of years you have lived on it doesn't change this.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

You are neglecting the indisputable fact that it DID belong to them because it was won in battle. The UK owned the land. Before that the Turks owned it, Before that the Roman's owned it, etc.

This is how border disputes and land ownership have always been decided throughout history.

The UK were the rightful owners of land and they gave it to create a few different countries. People that previously lived on that land (whether it was for a day or a thousand years) had no legitimate claim of ownership.

Merely living on land does not make it yours and the number of years you have lived on it doesn't change this.

Ok, based on that theory the US owned Europe after WW2. Give it back. The US owns Iraq. The US owns Afganistan. The US owns Italy. The US owns a hell of a lot of property and you all need to give it back right now.

[Radar]

No it isn't. If someone is shooting at me, HE is the person doing the endangering. HE is the one with the gun. If I pick up his kid and use him as a shield, HE should stop shooting at me. If he shoots at me while I'm holding his kid HE is the person endangering his kid, not me.

It's fucking idiotic to say I am the bad guy when someone else is killing and I'm trying not to die.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

No it isn't. If someone is shooting at me, HE is the person doing the endangering. HE is the one with the gun. If I pick up his kid and use him as a shield, HE should stop shooting at me. If he shoots at me while I'm holding his kid HE is the person endangering his kid, not me.

It's fucking idiotic to say I am the bad guy when someone else is killing and I'm trying not to die.

No human being with an ounce of sense would use an inocent child to protect them from harm.

[Happy Monkey]

What if you believe he is unlikely to shoot any child, and none of his are available? Are you justified in picking up the child of an innocent bystander to hide behind?

[Aliantha]

Well, he definitely thinks he's a kung fu master, but I think he's more of a troglodyte myself.

Thoughts anyone?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Well, he definitely thinks he's a kung fu master, but I think he's more of a troglodyte myself.

Thoughts anyone?

I vote troglodyte with a hint of proto-Neanderthal.

[Aliantha]

I think that's pretty accurate Merc. Nice work.

[Undertoad]

But in the late 1700s and early 1800s white settlers moved in and either killed them or forced them to live in reservations.

But that's not the end of the story. After that, the Lakota people indoctrinated their children in hate and taught them to attack the white settlers with terror and assymetrical tactics.

[Aliantha]

Watch out...Admin is here!

[Aliantha]

You know, the only thing Jewish Israelis ever did was whine more than anyone else who ever had their country invaded. They whined and whined till the rest of the world got together and decided to give them something to shut them up, and now they're still fucking whining.

When will they be happy? Never.

I'm sorry, but I'm just sick and tired of people trying to excuse Israels actions in the middle east and call everyone else the bad guys.

Chosen people my arse. They're just people like everyone else.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

You know, the only thing Jewish Israelis ever did was whine more than anyone else who ever had their country invaded. They whined and whined till the rest of the world got together and decided to give them something to shut them up, and now they're still fucking whining.

When will they be happy? Never.

I'm sorry, but I'm just sick and tired of people trying to excuse Israels actions in the middle east and call everyone else the bad guys.

Chosen people my arse. They're just people like everyone else.

Yes, what crazy people for claiming that those who strap bombs to themselves and blow up women and children are bad guys. Merely because the nations around them don't recognize their right to exist and have promised to murder them all and drive them into the ocean, they think they are bad guys.

They asked for a country (no whining necessary, though they had plenty to whine about nearly being wiped out by Nazis) and the U.N. did the right thing with the U.K. and gave them some of their historical homeland back.

You ask when they will be happy. The answer is when they can walk around their streets without fear of being blown to bits every day. When they can know that the countries around theirs recognize their right to exist and stop trying to destroy them. When they can go about their business without having to look over their shoulder.

That doesn't seem like too much to ask for.