"I can't Hate Donald Trump"

[tw]

Trump defined who believe what Rush Limbaugh, Laura Schlessinger, and Ann Coulter have told them what to believe.

[Pamela]

Everybody have a cup of chamomile tea and relax. Trump has this.

[Griff]

I saw a lot of movies as a kid about America being anti-fascist, looks like I needed a better filter.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Didn't go well the last time.

[El Veto-Voter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce
Didn't go well the last time.
Actually, up until they shot him, Reagan seemed to be doing a real good job of living up to his promises. But, after that incident, he seemed to be a different person. Even then, his legacy is better than any president since (IMNSHO).

A lot of people benefitted from his economic programs (tax cuts in particular), even though they ridiculed the concepts behind them (trickle-down economics).

And, it does seem from a neo-con worldview (which isn't mine) that eliminating the Soviet Union as a world-wide threat to freedom could be similar to "making America great again..."

But, I am not a fan of any country or other political establishment being "great". "Great" may be okay in sports, or in the educational achievement of students, but when a country or politician calls for "greatness" it is generally a call for war.

In politics how "great" you are is defined by who you can defeat.

GHW Bush (Crazy George II) made sure to prove our "greatness" by attacking and/or invading more coutries than any US President since World War II. His son George W (Crazy George III) followed up by taking over both Afghanistan and Iraq. What a disaster that has been for the American people (and economy) that have had to pay for all of that warfare.

We're all paying for it now in increased taxation with reduced incomes. (Did you ntice the box on your 1040 to check if you choose to not support the war? Neither did I. That sort of tyranny is seldom voluntary.)

But the bottom line is that we, any of us who voted, have given our blessing to everything that has been done in our names, with our mandate, because we have agreed in advance, by casting our votes, that whatever the winners and all of their minions do it okay by us.

That's a contract that I can't sign again. So I have become a Veto-Voter.

El Veto-Voter
www.HaltVote.com

[tw]

Originally Posted by El Veto-Voter

But the bottom line is that we, any of us who voted, have given our blessing to everything that has been done in our names, with our mandate, because we have agreed in advance, by casting our votes, that whatever the winners and all of their minions do it okay by us.

First, when one does not vote, then one tells leaders to only listen to extremists. If a voter goes to polls and checks off no names, even that is a vote against extremists. Politicians make decisions based upon who bothers to go to the polls. Does not matter if he is a greatest moderate in Congress. He will still vote with extremists if fewer people go to the polls.

Second, Tip O'Neill, House Speaker and Congressman even back in Kennedy's time said it best. Best administration he saw was 1st Administration Reagan. Worst administration he saw was 2nd Administration Reagan. What idiot would listen to some ill-respected Colonel as his military adviser. That's when (and because) over 200 American Marines were killed in Lebanon.

The people who did so much for Reagan (ie the Troika) left after four years - exhausted. What followed were power hungry and far less competent people - including and not limited to Oliver North.

George Sr was a superb leader. For example where was a massive recession created by war? Nixon spent money we did not have in 1968 (continued a war he knew we could not win to protect his legacy). As a result, a severe recession was 1975-1980s. George Jr spend almost $3 trillion on Mission Accomplished in 2003. Never forget the resulting recession he created before, on and after 2007.

George Sr was a competent president. Desert Storm (liberation of Kuwait) was paid for by the entire world. Even S American countries contributed. Largest contributor was Japan. As a result, that war did not create a severe downturn.

Of course it took Margaret Thatcher, Colin Powell and Brent Scowcroft (among others) to undo lies by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, and other neocons (later known as Project for a New American Century). Therefore that war was justified, met all criteria necessary for war, and did not create a massive recession. A major difference between responsible leadership and failed leadership often traceable to the people that a leader consults and brings with him into office.

Does not matter who you voted for. We all decided to send almost 5000 American soldiers to a useless death in Mission Accomplished. Does not matter who you voted for. We all are responsible for their deaths, a resulting recession, and other resulting problems. Trying to deny that is simply a cop out. We all did it - no matter what any one personally believed or said. And we all pay the price (decaying infrastructure, increasing military budgets, loss of jobs) because of what we all decided to do a decade earlier. It takes many years for such mistakes to have consequences.

[DanaC]

[DanaC]

You find her more frightening?

[glatt]

I don't think Hillary would push the button, but I can picture Trump doing it.

She's manipulative and secretive and all that stuff, but Trump is an impulsive loose cannon.

[DanaC]

I don't get why people find Hilary so scary. I don't think she has displayed any more or less of the qualities and/or flaws than the presidents you've already had.

I do think the fact she is female is a factor. I don't mean that you are sexist for finding her scary - I do however think the particular aspects of her character that are deemed frightening would be less frightening in a guy. Those character traits and ways of dealing are too out of kilter with our unconscious expectations of what a woman is.

When I look at the stuff some presidents and top tier male politicians have got up to without that in any way frightening off the voters and compare it to Hilary's record, I am slightly baffled by the rap she gets.

[footfootfoot]

First of all, Trump would never push the button; it doesn't make business sense and he's enough of a business man to know how to force things to change through economic policies. He is a classic trash talker, a gar mouth.

If he is elected it will be more of the same crazy trainwreck it has always been with trump. I actually think the country's financial situation will improve because Trump's reputation is more important to him than wealth, per se. Bush, on the other hand had a track record of taking over businesses and then sucking all the cash out of them and leaving them bankrupt. He didn't care about his reputation, it was all about the cash grab and all flat out lying was the norm.

Trump's big feather in his cap would be making the US financially sound, not out of any altruistic principal but so he could claim bragging rights. And can you deny that bragging is one of his top, if not the top, activities of his?

Hilary, on the other hand is a habitual liar, Wall Street is her BFF, and is just another politcal corporate tool. I, personally, couldn't give a fuck about what sex she is and it's precisely that "she has displayed more or less of the qualities and/or flaws than the presidents [we]'ve already had" that makes me terrified. Our country cannot withstand another term of American politics, I mean corporate pandering. The country is being bled dry and really our only hope would be Bernie or Trump for two very different reasons and admittedly, very different outcomes, neither of which I see as pandering to corpocracy.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

Hilary, on the other hand is a habitual liar, Wall Street is her BFF, and is just another politcal corporate tool.

That sounds like Trump.

[tw]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

I actually think the country's financial situation will improve because Trump's reputation is more important to him than wealth, per se. Bush, on the other hand had a track record of taking over businesses and then sucking all the cash out of them and leaving them bankrupt. He didn't care about his reputation, it was all about the cash grab and all flat out lying was the norm.

Wow. That 'sucking all the cash out' and 'leaving them bankrupt' is Trump's history. How did his history suddenly change?

George Jr and Trump are both Ivy League business school graduates embedded with the same concept of business: make profits at the expense of the product and counter-parties.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by tw

Wow. That 'sucking all the cash out' and 'leaving them bankrupt' is Trump's history. How did his history suddenly change?

George Jr and Trump are both Ivy League business school graduates embedded with the same concept of business: make profits at the expense of the product and counter-parties.

I thought Trump just lost investor money by making mistakes as opposed to stripping all the assets, lining his and his cronies pockets and then shuttering the place.

It always seemed like Trump tried to recover from his failures as opposed to Bush who seemed to count failures as success.

In any case, he's not my first choice for president. I don't think he even makes the top 100 list of my preferred presidents, but then neither does Hilary.

[tw]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

I thought Trump just lost investor money by making mistakes as opposed to stripping all the assets, lining his and his cronies pockets and then shuttering the place.

Trump demonstrates a tremendous negotiation skill. That is his asset. His ego and need to enrich himself (in money, power, publicity, etc) at expense of others is a severe weakness.

In a TV show called "Good Wife", an Illinois Governor runs for president. In Iowa, his rallies are poorly attended. However a one man band, with customized and creative songs signing praises of that Governor, keeps appearing. Professional campaign managers are appalled - keep trying to distance themselves from this one man band.

In a Caucus, if a candidate's corner does not have enough supporters, then he is eliminated. The Governor is short supporters. That one man band appears causing many to move to the Governor's corner. He could not be a better campaign promoter.

Why did professional campaign managers not see it? Same applies to what Trump is doing. Professionals would never attempt what Trump has done for the same reason professionals would distance themselves from that one man band. What works is not necessary understood in all environment. This environment is chock full of hate and disgust when the facts do not justify it. That creates volatility.

When so many foolishly believe ISIS is a greater personal threat than a car crash, then logic and experience no longer applies. Many in history prospered in such conditions such as Joseph McCarthy and Hugo Chavez.

Trump demonstrates another assent. He is made of teflon.