Law Enforcment

[Big Sarge]

The death of Eric Garner - Garner was a big man and was resisting arrest. He died as a result of position asphyxiation and compression of the neck with contributing factors of asthma and heart disease. Note the autopsy found no damage to the windpipe or neck bones. Yes it was ruled a homicide, but that is a legal term. If you shoot someone in self defense and kill them, it is a homicide. Did you know that if you kill yourself, it is still a homicide under UCMJ reporting?

Bottom line is the grand jury chose not to indict. Are we again supposed to throw out our legal system because those privy to all of the evidence believed a crime had not been committed.

[Undertoad]

Yes. To take that last bit a step further, the video is angry, and people are angry, that each of these cases did not result in an indictment. (She writes NO INDICTMENT! in red each time)

So is there a problem with racist policing; or is it far worse, a racist breakdown of rule of law? Like not only are the cops in on it, but... like... everybody's in on it?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Bottom line is the grand jury chose not to indict. Are we again supposed to throw out our legal system because those privy to all of the evidence believed a crime had not been committed.

If a grand jury doesn't indict, it's usually because the prosecutor didn't want them to; as per Sol Wachtler's ham sandwich.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

So is there a problem with racist policing; or is it far worse, a racist breakdown of rule of law?

More of an insufficient buildup of rule of law. You can't break down what wasn't there to begin with.

[Big Sarge]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

If a grand jury doesn't indict, it's usually because the prosecutor didn't want them to; as per Sol Wachtler's ham sandwich.
More of an insufficient buildup of rule of law. You can't break down what wasn't there to begin with.

Wachtler made an off the cuff crack that was used in a book of fiction. That's your evidence the American jurisprudence system is rigged on use of force cases involving white officers and black suspects? Have you served on a grand jury or presented cases before a grand jury?

[Big Sarge]

John Crawford III died in Walmart. Hart needs to check her facts. Crawford picked up a .177 caliber pellet rifle in sporting goods and walked around the store swinging it and gesturing it. The encounter with police occurred in the pets department. Police order him to drop the rifle and get on the floor. He drops the rifle and runs, but sees another officer and runs back to the rifle. There is a 17:41 video showing everything. How many of these social justice idiots have taken the time to see it or listen to the 911 dispatch tapes? Hart still thinks it is a toy gun. Anyway, the grand jury said no true bill. There was not evidence of a crime. Once again does a certain minority group want us to throw out our legal system when the verdicts don't suit them.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

John Crawford III died in Walmart. Hart needs to check her facts. Crawford picked up a .177 caliber pellet rifle in sporting goods and walked around the store swinging it and gesturing it. The encounter with police occurred in the pets department. Police order him to drop the rifle and get on the floor. He drops the rifle and runs, but sees another officer and runs back to the rifle. There is a 17:41 video showing everything. How many of these social justice idiots have taken the time to see it or listen to the 911 dispatch tapes? Hart still thinks it is a toy gun. Anyway, the grand jury said no true bill. There was not evidence of a crime. Once again does a certain minority group want us to throw out our legal system when the verdicts don't suit them.

I didn't find the 17:41 video, but I found a 42 minute one, and one synced to another camera and the 911 call, and it appears that "swinging" might be somewhat accurate, since it was in one hand, and he wasn't actively pointing it at anything, but "gesturing"?

And the time between "drop your weapon" (which he does), and shots fired was less than 2 seconds.

[Big Sarge]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I didn't find the 17:41 video, but I found a 42 minute one, and one synced to another camera and the 911 call, and it appears that "swinging" might be somewhat accurate, since it was in one hand, and he wasn't actively pointing it at anything, but "gesturing"?

And the time between "drop your weapon" (which he does), and shots fired was less than 2 seconds.

You are a police officer and dispatched to the scene of a man armed with a rifle. You order the suspect to drop the weapon and get on the ground. He drops it and runs away and then turns and runs back to the weapon and toward you, the officer, the weapon is at his feet. What do you do? You have a micro-second to decide where to engage on the use of force continuum. Guess wrong and you could die.

[Big Sarge]

The shooting of Michael Brown was a mistake made by bad police and allowed by our justice system? It has already been established that the hands up don't shoot crap never happened. Brown committed a strong armed robbery minutes before he was confronted by Officer Wilson. A large part of the physical confrontation took place in the patrol car when Brown attacked Wilson as proven by forensics. An exhaustive investigation by the DOJ exonerated Officer Wilson.

Once more Hart and her buddies want us to throw out the legal system because they aren't happy with the verdicts. If the verdicts don't match some narrative they've heard on the internet, then white officers must be conspiring?

[Big Sarge]

Happy Monkey - Do you need me to continue to break down each incident? Hart does nothing but try to spin partial facts and trigger words.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Happy Monkey - Do you need me to continue to break down each incident? Hart does nothing but try to spin partial facts and trigger words.

Sarge, that's a lot of excusing and rationalizing you've done there.

[Big Sarge]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Sarge, that's a lot of excusing and rationalizing you've done there.

Hart is espousing the idea our legal system is rigged because a minority faction is unhappy with some verdicts. Plus, she doesn't seem to care about facts in cases.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Hart is espousing the idea our legal system is rigged because a minority faction is unhappy with some verdicts. Plus, she doesn't seem to care about facts in cases.

Or there's systemic/institutional bias. Possible, no?

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Or there's systemic/institutional bias. Possible, no?

If there is this bias, let us prove it out. What we have are selected anecdotes about incidents, which are heartbreaking in every way. But not really proof.

I just heard of one that happened two miles from my home town, just last year. As kids, we rode bikes right near where this happened.

The following is a true story. It is an anecdote. It proves nothing:

This cop pulls a guy over for an expired inspection sticker: two months out of inspection.

The guy is age 59, and there's 6 inches of snow on the ground... but he gets out of the car and starts to try to run. For no reason at all, with no evidence at all, the cop decides he has a gun. The cop tasers him, and he lands face down in the snow. He lands with his hands up, but the cop continues to taser him, over and over and over, and he goes into convulsions; and, naturally, his hands drop down. At that point, the cop shoots him. In the back.

He didn't have a gun. And his jacket was zipped up, so it would have been tricky to reach for one.

In this case, they prosecuted the cop; but you know a central Pennsylvania jury would not convict a police officer. The cop even decided to go back to work - and would have - until the community got together and fought it.

Had you heard of this? I hadn't heard of it until today. Why haven't we heard of this?

Cos the full story doesn't affect the current narrative, so it's not interesting. So people don't care and so it doesn't make national news. Full story is here.

You may watch the bodycam footage if you like that sort of thing. It's pretty frickin' horrible. But like the nature videos, sometimes you have to see and acknowledge what life is. Especially if you wish to speak to it.

[Big Sarge]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Or there's systemic/institutional bias. Possible, no?

Throughout the whole US with African Americans actively participating in said bias? Don't forget these juries and prosecutor offices have African American serving on them.

[sexobon]

You know that you probably could have picked a better name for your organization when at least 141,000 people think it should be labeled a "terror group."

WH responds to petition to label Black Lives Matter a "terror" group

After days of violence and heightened racial tensions in the U.S., the White House responded this week to an online petition asking the federal government to formally label the Black Lives Matter movement as a "terror group." ...

...Because the online document received at least 100,000 signatures --at the time of this reporting, it had garnered over 141,000 names -- the White House was automatically prompted to respond. ...