Atheism in the USA

[Undertoad]

If the idea of God is just a representation of the sum total of all human potential through all time, the top of the hierarchy of values, and a word for the (mostly Darwinian) forces that guide us, that we cannot hope to completely understand, I believe in all of that.

It looks like everybody just made a human mistake and over-personified that concept, and now God is "Sky Daddy Who Controls Everything And Judges Us". If instead of that, God is everything above, then we are the judges all along, and what is Godlike is what best serves our potential.

We have doubled life expectancy, answered a lot of the problem of pain, managed to harness the creation of life, describe the physical rules that govern the world... from the perspective of someone 1000 years ago, WE are God. We answered our own prayers. We don't have the cures for all of our own ills -- after centuries of the Enlightenment, we are still extremely confused. (Which is very interesting!)

But we try to advance humanity's future. Even as we won't be there to experience it. That is service towards God, the representation of humanity over time.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

If the idea of God is just a representation of the sum total of all human potential through all time, the top of the hierarchy of values, and a word for the (mostly Darwinian) forces that guide us, that we cannot hope to completely understand, I believe in all of that.

It looks like everybody just made a human mistake and over-personified that concept, and now God is "Sky Daddy Who Controls Everything And Judges Us". If instead of that, God is everything above, then we are the judges all along, and what is Godlike is what best serves our potential.

I agree very heartily with the general shape of your take on what God is.

One idea that I wish that more religious organizations would embrace, and make a real effort to encourage in their devotees, is that reconciling scientific knowledge with religious concepts doesn't devalue the moral and practical applications of religion; and if we are genuinely interested in religion being a tool of betterment for the world, we should embrace anything which makes it stronger and more resonant with people who were born in the 20th/21st century.

The Iron Age was a long time ago, we should stop trying to live in that mindset. Let religion be a strong force for moral leadership in the world-- TODAY'S world, the world WE live in.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Flint

One idea that I wish that more religious organizations would embrace, and make a real effort to encourage in their devotees, is that reconciling scientific knowledge with religious concepts doesn't devalue the moral and practical applications of religion

Yessir. If they are just stories, and we recognize them as stories, we can learn from them, even if they are scientifically inaccurate. (We have learned almost everything from stories based in fiction!) The problem is as Dana points out, the indoctrination is to the Sky Daddy format, which is way more useful for the indoctrinatin' part.

It's like, I am down to call myself Christian, if it just means figuring that the Christ story is to the good, and calls you to act like the dude. But Christians won't have it, they need you to believe in the physical resurrection, before they let you in the club. JFC, wouldn't it be an even better story if Christ could not rely on supernatural magic powers? That's why we like Batman...

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

That's why we like Batman...

and Joan of Arc.

[DanaC]

I like that, Undertoad. It's a nice thought.

An examination of childhood indoctrination:

[DanaC]

That's why we like Batman...

UT just won the thread.