NO MORE REDSKINS

[lumberjim]

I hope they do have to change the name. Not because of any of the reasons stated here, though.

I just fucking hate that team. Always have.

[gvidas]

Originally Posted by sexobon

When you advocate not using the name Redskins, you're advocating dropping the rich heritage of a Native American of a previous generation, one once called the Patron Saint of America, to satiate the whining of the current generation sponging off that heritage with attention whoring political correctness abuses in a futile grasp at control: Native American Heritage Cannibalism.

I don't think anyone outside of a cultural group has any standing to decide who is and is not a legitimate representative of that group, especially when they're organized to the point of having official spokespersons.

If there were an actual disagreement amongst Native Americans as to who should speak for them; and some were saying "nah, keep the name, we like it" and others were saying "find a new name, that's offensive"; I would accept the argument that we should wait and see. But there is no such debate.

The way I see it, Native Americans are fairly cohesively saying, repeatedly and forcefully, that they consider "redskin" a derogatory term, and that naming a football team that does not honor their heritage.

Insisting that it does is tantamount to saying: "I know better than you how to commemorate your history."

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by DanaC

It's like an English political group admiring Gandhi, and over the years they end up giving the nickname 'the pakis' to a football club and then insisting that has something to do with Gandhi.

(Which is inadvertently funny because we actually have a football team called "The Packers.")

[Gravdigr]

Before the white man came, the area that is now D.C. was crawling with Native Americans.

History don't begin with the white man.

[glatt]

True, but DC isn't unique there. Every city can say the same thing. What makes DC unique is that it's the nation's capital. The team name should reflect what makes this city unique.

[Gravdigr]

So let's rename the team to the Washington Power Mad Ego Maniacs.

Or The Dividers.

Or The Crack Mayors.

Oooooh...The Lobby.

[Gravdigr]

I'm waiting for the cracker industry to stop using the word 'cracker'. It's racist, and highly offensive.

I'm also waiting for reparations from when the gubmint took my land and killed my ancestors with small pox-infected blankets.

Whir mah check?

[Sundae]

Dana, shut up with your political correctness already.
Honestly. You're gone mad on it.
You'll be banning Jebus next.

[sexobon]

UT, you're on alert five, stand ready to unban JBKlyde!

[sexobon]

It's not just their history, it's our history and there have been other cultural groups in better position to give an accounting of it from the time it became a shared history (especially pre-conflict) for the purpose of commemoration. They're not just asserting who makes that decision for their own culture, they're aggressing to make that determination for all cultures. Disagreeing with that is tantamount to saying I know better than you how to commemorate my part of our shared history together. I wouldn't aggress against Native Americans for having a football team called the Palefaces or even the Forked Tongues if that's what commemorates their part of our shared history. If they can't reciprocate, that's their problem:

"No matter how badly you are broken, you can always build yourself back up. It takes time. Don't let your struggle become your identity."

[gvidas]

It's either imperialistic or a complete failure of language to call someone by a derogatory slur and then say, in response to their offense and in all seriousness, "I'm honoring our shared cultural history."

I'd accept the point if the owners of the team were being ironic, or even a little introspective -- if the whole thing was being done to call attention to the rapacious conquest of North America by European colonists. But it's not. It is a continuation of that same conquest, concurrent with denying it ever happened.

Native Americans are entirely justified in saying 'I know better than you how to commemorate my part of our shared history together.' That's the point.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by gvidas

It's either imperialistic or a complete failure of language to call someone by a derogatory slur and then say, in response to their offense and in all seriousness, "I'm honoring our shared cultural history." ...

"Someone"?! Which someone are you talking about? The football team calls itself the Redskins and they're not complaining about being offended. They're not pointing to any living Native American and saying You're a redskin. How history addresses groups of people who have passed on before us is not the purview of any one culture. Also, honoring is not the same as commemorating. People commemorate both successes/triumphs and failures/disasters, the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. The only failure in language I've seen here is yours.

Originally Posted by gvidas

Native Americans are entirely justified in saying 'I know better than you how to commemorate my part of our shared history together.' That's the point.

That's only half a point. They don't get to make that decision for everyone, it's too subjective, it's too political. They do have input just like everyone else ... one person, one vote. They can sway as many votes as they're able; but, the polls aren't in their favor. Their recourse is to sway small groups of people in key positions as did the people they despise.

Originally Posted by gvidas

I'd accept the point if ...

Considering your level of understanding, your acceptance is not required.

[DanaC]

Ok. I am out of this discussion. It's gone through the fucking looking glass into bizarro land.

[sexobon]

I was only here for political correctness Nazi entertainment; so, if Dani's out, I'm out too.

[Griff]

Good because we skipped right over a discussion of the fudge industry in Green Bay.