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Old 03-06-2012, 01:16 PM   #1
Big Sarge
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Iran, Syria, and others

This speech by President Reagan fits the current situation to the "t". Of course, I realize many of you have opposing feelings. I hope this will spark a lively debate.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:00 PM   #2
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nice.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:01 PM   #3
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I guess our liberals won't see it till this evening
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:46 PM   #4
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I don't see much in there that fits the current situation at all (or even that the examples Reagan uses within his speech are apt to his own point).
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:04 PM   #5
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I don't see much in there that fits the current situation at all (or even that the examples Reagan uses within his speech are apt to his own point).
Prettymuch.

WHY is war with Iran necessary? the question isn't whether or not America is willing to go to war when it's necessary. I'm no dove - I think there are absolutely situations in which US military force is necessary, and probably have a lower threshold for intervention than almost all not-completely-hawkish liberals I know. The question is, is the risk to American lives and interests, the risk of potentially decades of fallout and unforeseen consequences, worth the immediate benefit of military intervention?

And I don't see how that's the case in Iran.

In Syria, on the other hand, I would absolutely support intervention, like how we intervened in Libya. It's gotten to the point where outside intervention is absolutely necessary to stop Assad from massacring his people - and I think we and the international community should do SOMETHING about it, military or otherwise.
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:47 PM   #6
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This doesn't apply only to Iran. The same thing needs to be done in Syria. We are the last (barely) super power and we need to man up and start acting like one.

And to answer everyone's question; I posted this to stir the shit. I was bored
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:50 PM   #7
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But again - WHY do you believe that intervention in Iran is necessary? What would we seek to accomplish? What would the mission objective be?
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:28 PM   #8
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Sarge,

SPC Isaac Nieves, SGT Joshua Rimer, CPT Sean Sims, 1LT Ed Iwan, CSM Steve Falkenberg, SGT Charles Web (my room mate), 1SG Chris Rafferty ( friend and mentor).

I often wonder what the fuck these friends and colleges of mine have died for. For a bunch of ungrateful liberal fucks? For a bunch of money, war mongering conservative fucks? I have no clue. I see both. I guess I'll go with the answer from Black Hawk down...they died for us their brothers in arms. I say fuck Iran and Israel let them figure out their own bullshit. I don't see this speech from a man who made great speeches but fucked the U.S. in a lot ways, as in any way relevant.

Shit stirred. Out here.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:45 PM   #9
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regular.joe - i know how you feel. I simply feel there will be no peace until the muslim extremists are brought under control. Iran is calling for genocide. Just think how thinks might be different if some country had intervened & stopped Hitler.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:28 PM   #10
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Dear America,

Stop worrying so much about Iran and Israel. While you are off squandering your strength in the desert, China is rapidly overtaking you in just about every category except government debt.

Keep your powder dry, your eyes on the prize, your focus on the main game.

Luv,

Ur Allies.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regular.joe View Post
I often wonder what the fuck these friends and colleges of mine have died for.
Learn what is always required before going to war. Those who talk in terms of liberal and conservative will never learn this - which is why so many American servicemen were killed uselessly.

It was posted back in 2003 when Dejavue Nam was posted repeatedly. Everyone here should have learned from Nam. Or could have learned this all over again from Mission Accomplished.

Three requirements always required for war. First is a smoking gun. The smoking gun should be obvious. But when asked, so many forget the smoking gun in WWII. Pearl Harbor. What was the smoking gun in Nam? A lie called Gulf of Tonkin. What was the smoking gun in Mission Accomplished? Saddam's mythical WMDs. Another lie. Both examples of why those wars went so badly and so many American servicemen suffered.

Second, is the Strategic Objective. WWII won because the strategic objective was clear, obvious, and maintained to the very end: unconditional surrender. Nam was a defeat because the strategic objective was bogus - body counts. Afghanistan – George Jr all but protected bin Laden.

Third, an exit strategy is always required. The exit strategy in WWII was obvious. Unconditional surrender resulted in the required Nation Building. Something that did not exist in Mission Accomplished due to leaders without intelligence or basic military knowledge. Leaders who were so contemptful of the American serviceman as to say, "America does not do nation building." What happened seven months later after Bremer stifled nation building and left?

Now, view some of America's military victories. Haiti. Diplomacy by moderates - people with intelligence - Jimmy Carter and Colin Powell got Baby Doc to literally surrender without conflict. Or Serbia. Milosevic literally surrendered in the Dayton Accords because again, diplomacy made a Serbian invasion unnecessary. Or Taylor in Liberia - same thing. In every case, negotiation backed by informed intelligence and only the existence of a military resulted in great victories.

But this is only possible when the leader has basic intelligence and no political agenda. American soldier then need not fight to win a victory. One could learn this even from Alexander the Great. But that requires leaders with basic intelligence, without ‘big dic’ thinking, and with respect for the American soldier.

Only those with low intelligence jump to overt military conflict to solve things. Will even foolishly say, “America does not talk to its enemies.” Wacko extremists even wanted war with mainland China over a silly spy plane. Until a moderate, Colin Powell, stopped making that war inevitable by silencing the wackos and talking diplomatically.

Bill Clinton literally used shuttle diplomacy to avert a nuclear war between India and Pakistan.

We are now spending $890,000 per soldier per year in Afghanistan because wacko extremists refused to get bin Laden, ignored the always required negotiation at a peace table, and then virtually surrendered to the Taliban. An example of why the American military is now so massively harmed and must downsize. Because 'big dic' thinking is a greatest enemy of every American serviceman.

Why is the Iranian conflict so hot? Because the world has decided to settle a problem. Sanctions on Iran - especially a boycott of its central bank - are extremely painful. Are causing major conflict even among Iran's ruling powers. Ahmadinejad even may be impeached.

Meanwhile what does another ‘big dic’ want? Netanyahu wants war. The same idiot who was defeated in Lebanon (because he violated those above three points) now wants to make the same mistake with Iran. He even wants to unite the Iranian leadership. He even admits military operations will only delay an evitable by only two years. Using the term “mowing the nuclear grass”.

What kind of strategic objective is that? A bogus one that does not solve anything. That only losers or ‘big dics’ would endorse. And one that should worry every American especially with so many American troops exposed in Afghanistan.

An Iranian problem can be solved. But will only get worse if big dic thinking makes the same mistake as in Dejavue Nam and Mission Accomplished. Those well proven examples are why everyone here is expected to learn from history. Or review the posts in 2003 when these concepts defined Mission Accomplished as foolish. Learn why the current Israeli leader is a threat to an Iranian solution and American security.

Why do the ‘big dics’ have no problem sending military to do their bidding? Because ‘big dics’ need not suffer the consequences. And do not bother to learn from history. Dejavue Nam. Everyone from 2003 should remember how that expression so accurately summarized a disaster that would later be called Mission Accomplished.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:23 PM   #12
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Joe doesn't need your speech.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:40 PM   #13
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I'm with Joe.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:59 PM   #14
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"In combat, you don't fight for your country or beliefs. You are fighting to save your own ass & your buddy's." I hear this quite often. I personally don't regret anything I did in Iraq or Kosovo. I'm actually proud to have served and I truly believe we made a difference by forcing the extremists to fight in their own back yard; thus preventing successful attacks against the US Homeland. Also, I have experienced the gratitude of the Kurds.
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Sarge View Post
"In combat, you don't fight for your country or beliefs. You are fighting to save your own ass & your buddy's." I hear this quite often. I personally don't regret anything I did in Iraq or Kosovo. I'm actually proud to have served and I truly believe we made a difference by forcing the extremists to fight in their own back yard; thus preventing successful attacks against the US Homeland. Also, I have experienced the gratitude of the Kurds.
But what about the whey?
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