You RFN, 2012

[Ibby]

There's a third in the other lobe, too. I have naturally fairly fat lips, haven't needed to plump them much really, i think. I usually go with a little bit of powder, some lipstick or gloss, some concealer for my shadow/stubble, and some mascara.

[Sundae]

If those are natural then you probably don't need plumpers. But try one anyway. You'd look even more kissable!

[Lola Bunny]

Originally Posted by Sundae

If those are natural then you probably don't need plumpers. But try one anyway. You'd look even more kissable!

They're kissable enough for me. I'm not sure if the plumpers may be a good idea. He may end up looking like he got punched in the mouth.

Btw, Ibram, VERY CUTE!

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by Lola Bunny

He may end up looking like he got punched in the mouth.

*she

[Sheldonrs]

Originally Posted by Ibram

*she

But you still have the penis, right? Because if you don't, then I have to cross you off my bucket list of things to do before I die. ;-)

[Big Sarge]

Lola - Ref that picture you sent to my phone:
I'd eat it!!!!

[Lola Bunny]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Lola - Ref that picture you sent to my phone:
I'd eat it!!!!

Very good.

[DanaC]

@ Sarge: that looks awesome. Love the knife!
@ Ibica: damn kid, you're so cute it should be illegal.

@ Lola: God's teeth, you are stunning. I mean you always look lovely in photos (don't recall ever seeing one of you where you didn;t look pretty) but you look like a Bond girl in that shot. Drop dead gorgeous. One of the Beautiful People.

[Ibby]

I know you mean that good-naturedly, but I have to lodge my objection to it, on the grounds that comments like that are A.) essentially binarist in a way that makes me uncomfortable, and B.) is the sort of comment that, by boiling identity down to genitalia, contributes to a massive sense of trans* erasure and sex-essentialism that makes me very uncomfortable.
I'm trying to not get on your case here but still make clear why I think that's a damaging comment, please don't take it personally, I know what you meant, but... I think you could stand to rethink the expression of your sentiment a little. I feel like what you're saying is, on a fundamental level, "well, whatever you call yourself, you're man enough for me", by boiling it down to my plumbing. I understand that your identity as gay puts you in as awkward a position when it comes to your attractions towards the trans* community, the same way it puts a straight girl in an awkward position - but taking an essentialist, binarist position as justification only further marginalizes the trans* community.

[BigV]

He called you a thing with a penis. Utterly objectifying you. I don't see any gender language there at all, binarist, trans* or otherwise.

Yeah. Humor, or at least attempted humor.

[Aliantha]

I see the comment as a reflection of Sheldon's sexuality. He says, if you don't have a penis he's not interested, cause that's what he likes.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I see the comment as a reflection of Sheldon's sexuality. He says, if you don't have a penis he's not interested, cause that's what he likes.

And I think that defining things that way, especially to my face, would, coming from a stranger, strike me as offensive. Because it's Shel, and I like Shel and fundamentally believe the best about him, I know that's not what he's trying to say. I'm just trying to point out how comments like that can be hurtful, regardless of intent. I'm not sore or trying to be contrarian, I'm just saying that even if Shel is only interested in people with dicks, using that sort of language and talking about identity, gender, sex, and sexuality in those terms is fraught with peril and it is quite easy to be accidentally hurtful or to, without any malice, without even being aware of it, say things that can feel exclusionary, binarist, and sex-essentialist to those on the non-cisgendered side of things.

Not so very long ago, "i don't mind gay people, I just don't want them rubbing it in my face", or any other variant of the "as long as they don't do it around me" argument, would have been a fairly progressive point of view. But now, to most people, it sounds dated and prejudicial - like it assumes that, while straight people keep sex private, gay people are likely to take it too far, or do it in public, or try to coerce uninterested parties into participation. I really hope that one of these days, comparing a sensitivity to gender issues to being high will sound equally dated. And even if you think I'm being ridiculous by standing up for them, I'm going to KEEP being vocal about defending my identity and on trans* issues that I think aren't being adequately represented here. You can put me on the loony fringe if you like, but I at least want to make the "fringe", progressive, queer, activist trans* point of view heard. The same way one oversensitive nigger ain't gonna keep everyone from saying "black", I don't expect one oversensitive tranny to keep you guys from straying into what i consider vaguely offensive, trans*-erasive, sexist commentary. I know the Cellar is going to be a lot more accepting and positive than most communities. But I also know there's a pretty strong anti-political-correctness sentiment around here, and I'm not gonna go off in tears just because a few people think I take my problems with the genderification and the politicization of language that most people take for granted overly seriously.

[monster]

ibramica, you gotta stop smoking that shit.

[Aliantha]

Ibram, I really like you and think you're a lovely fella, but I reckon you need to get over yourself a bit. You're taking it too far, and you're going to make your road very difficult if you're going to take offence at harmlessly humourous comments like Sheldons. Honestly, there are a lot more battles worth fighting than the one you've created here.

Yes I understand you're on a journey and you're finding your way and it's hard but seriously, you have to still be able to make and take a joke, not just on your own terms, but on the terms of the people who mean you no harm at all.

Again, I honestly mean no offence to you. I don't really care what your sexuality is. I don't care what anyone's sexuality is. I really just want to be able to have a discourse without having to worry about who I called a he when I should have called him a she or whatever. if I'm talking to you, then 'you' are what you are, and what I address you as is of no consequence and has no bearing on what you see yourself as. The only person who really has to be happy about you is you. Everyone else can go get knotted.

[jimhelm]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Ibram, I really like you and think you're a lovely fella, but I reckon you need to get over yourself a bit. You're taking it too far, and you're going to make your road very difficult if you're going to take offence at harmlessly humourous comments like Sheldons. Honestly, there are a lot more battles worth fighting than the one you've created here.

Tilting at windmills, etc.

I agree in a general sense with Ali here. Both points... I like you , but c'mon... you're going out of your way looking for offense when clearly none was intended. Makes you sound bitchy.