01-02-2011, 10:54 AM | #151 |
polaroid of perfection
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Same here Dani - not re the school (as they have a VERY effective reward system for walk/ cycle/ scoot/ car-share, which must be a nightmare for working parents) but the closer you get to London the more "Chelsea Tractors" you see. Sat in traffic jams, within the Congestion Charge area, carrier/ gym bags on the back seat and SPOTLESSLY clean inside and out. I could be wrong, the fit young lady driving could just have come back from Scotland and stopped off at the garage for a spot of OCD car cleaning. Or from driving along Blackpool Beach, or whale spotting in Wales. But the good chance is she (alone in her 4x4) has just been shopping and perhaps on a running machine.
It's not up to me to tell people how to spend their money, but it seems a shame when having it affects everyone else (ie those with money can ignore the spirit of the Congestion Charge because they can afford to, and are often found in bus lanes because they just HAD to "pop in and pick something up!") I confess I would have two cars if I won the lottery. My town car (probably a Beetle or a Nissan Micra) for 90% of the time and my big fuck-off Jeep for bad weather and pulling people out of ditches. Each for its own time and meticulously cared for in between. Oh and a driver... Am I straying too far from the point now...?
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01-02-2011, 11:09 AM | #152 | |||
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Now many (most?) 4 wheel drive vehicles use a limited slip differential on at least the rear axle. Either Eaton's clutch type (like GM's posi-traction), a ratchet type (like Ford's Detroit Locker) or the newer Torsen geared type (developed for front wheel drive cars) so that when the wheel powering the axle loses traction, the power is transfered to the other wheel on that axle. Newer (read high end, more expensive) systems, especially full time all wheel drive systems, use a limited slip differential between the front and rear axles. Many 4 wheel drive systems, especially in trucks, are designed and built so the front axle turns a tiny bit faster than the rear axle. This is for straight line stability at speed. On loose surfaces it's not a problem, but on dry (good traction) surfaces it can cause increase rear tire wear. This is where that "wheels fight each other" shit comes from. Actually a couple of pounds difference in tire pressure can cause the same condition, but it's not a serious safety issue. Quote:
Now the newer electronically controlled, viscous coupling, 4 wheel/all wheel drives sound like the perfect choice for being prepared. BUT, the reality is the are more expensive to buy, and to operate. More moving parts to buy initially, more shit to wear out, more systemic parasitic power losses, although the new systems have cut those losses to a minimum. Plus the fact that in more heavily populated parts of civilization, the roads are cleared pretty quickly, usually less than 24 hours (bare pavement in 36) in most cases. Therefore, the cheaper/smarter choice, unless you do some serious off roading (damn few do), or you're a survivalist, is leave the 4 wheel drives to the EMTs, or people that absolutely-positively-have-to-get-there, and stay the hell home and have orgies, on the few days a year the roads are bad... or learn to drive in bad weather.
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01-02-2011, 11:22 AM | #153 |
polaroid of perfection
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I might get of these, if they come in baby Pink
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01-02-2011, 11:25 AM | #154 |
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Like all vehicles, they come in anything you can afford.
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01-02-2011, 01:45 PM | #155 | |
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When trucks had hubs, that interconnection was rock solid. If you drove that vehicle at 30 MPH, you could easily roll the vehicle. So that the today's four wheel drives do not routinely roll over, the differential is not locked as firmly. But all wheels must still be interconnected – causing reduce moving safety. It has a limited slip differential. That means wheels still fight each other. And also increase tire wear. Why tire wear? Because the wheels on four wheel drive are constantly fighting each other. Increasing tire wear. Reduced traction and control at/above 30 MPH. The compromise. Reduce moving safety so that the vehicle can more easily get started. Safety is secondary on vehicles designed to have less ground clearance than a Humvee and also be less stable. One icy roads, the last vehicle I want to be in is a four wheel drive where all wheels are fighting each other due to limited slip differentials and another interlock between from and rear wheels. But those local gossip bimbos tell us to believe differently. As you noted, the limited slip differential is why four wheel drive wheels fight each other - causing less control and increased tire wear. That means less control and less safety. That means less braking and tires more easily losing traction during emergency manuevers. Same thing that increases tire wear also means less control when moving on icy roads. Which do we believe? Advertising or reality? As DanaC demonstrates, a four wheel drive is not about needing to go off road. In most every case, it's about ego. And this myth that such vehicles are safer because they are higher, etc. A nearby family suffered last week on the way to FL. She caught the left edge of the left lane on I-95 in SC. Because such trucks are so unstable, it flipped when it snapped back onto the road. Only the most unsafe vehicles with less stability flip more often. One of two kids were killed. These trucks are some of the least stable vehicles. Add four wheel drive to make them even less safe in inclement weather. |
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01-02-2011, 01:48 PM | #156 |
polaroid of perfection
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Yay! A baby pink Panda it is then!
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01-02-2011, 01:56 PM | #157 | |
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On wet grass, mud, loose gravel, sand, snow, ice, anywhere the traction is iffy, tire wear does not occur.
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01-02-2011, 06:28 PM | #158 |
“Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo”
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And do they have a UAW equivalent there?
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01-02-2011, 06:32 PM | #159 |
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I have owned a 4 wheel drive vehicle or truck since 1985. I would never be without.
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01-03-2011, 04:07 PM | #160 | |||||||||
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This system is extremely inefficient and expensive, because of all the moving parts that require power and are wearing out, even when not used to drive the vehicle. After the war, (the big one, WW II), they used a transfer care for the front wheels that could be shifted into neutral, but retained the locking hubs. Early smaller 4x4 trucks used this system, but as 4x4s became more popular with hunters, farmers, and snow plowers, this system was discarded for more efficient systems with limited slip differentials, thus ending the "infighting" between wheels. Quote:
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I think they have some sort of workers organization, but they also have the advantage of the European culture of much longer vacations, and government supported health care.
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01-03-2011, 08:14 PM | #161 |
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Among other forms of social support which is among the reasons they are in so deep.
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01-04-2011, 12:22 AM | #162 |
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Mercedes or Germany?
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01-04-2011, 12:24 AM | #163 |
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Mercedes or Germany?
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01-04-2011, 06:15 AM | #164 |
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01-04-2011, 07:28 AM | #165 | |
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Why is a vehicle designed for off road safer than one designed to not flip? Oh. An off road vehicle flipped because it went off road. Clearly the lady is at fault because she should have known how unsafe that truck is. She only caught the left edge of the road. Only more dangerous vehicles would flip over and kill the kid. How curious. That flipping is most common in four wheel drives. So you blame the driver. How can that be if four wheel drive trucks are safer? If wheels that fight each other (as you admit they do) cause increased traction? Most dangerous vehicle moving down the highway in icy conditions is a four wheel drive. Its only advantage – getting started is easier. Even you admit its tires fight each other - increased tire wear. And now you say that makes it safer? Please. Eight years of George Jr logic was enough. Reality does not change because tires that you say are fighting each other are also, you say, not fighting each other. The truck flipped over and killed a kid because unstable flip even when only catching the edge of the road. A safe vehicle would not flip. So you blame the lady for doing what everyone at some time has done. Only unstable – as in more dangerous - vehicles flip. But that makes them saver on icy roads – your reasoning. xoxoxoBruce - at this point I am only laughing at your spin. Tires that you say wear faster because they fight each other also so not fight each other. You are being comical - right? |
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