Purpose of any Company is Profits - screw the workers

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by case

Yes, I agree to a point. A lot of wages for lower and middle income earners have have remained stagnant. And not because they don't work hard enough. But not all have been this way. And not for as long as it seems. For instance, my husband makes significantly more than he did 10 years ago, but he has the same title and does the same thing. There are some in his field that make more then he does and some that make less. Now, if someone came in and said "Hey, XXX is the new limit to what Sys Analysts can make" and it was less than his wage? Yeah, he and everyone who makes what he makes or more get a cut in pay. Sucks. So, how motivated is he going to be to get better at what he does? What kind of pride will people have in their work if there is no hope for advancement? I agree that the salaries are out of wack and I know that was anecdotal, but I believe there are a lot of those people out there, too.

The way I look at is this, if the wage disparity is addressed as a % of what the top can earn over the bottom, then the majority of the workforce would actually enjoy higher pay. The only ones who would suffer, if you can even call it that, are the ones who are making really, really high salaries. I honestly believe if the company shared the wealth more evenly with the workforce, they would have a happier, more loyal workforce who would be willing to work harder to make good things happen. A happy, respected, well-paid employee is a GOOD employee. And unhappy, disrespected, under-paid employees, not so much.

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

The way I look at is this, if the wage disparity is addressed as a % of what the top can earn over the bottom, then the majority of the workforce would actually enjoy higher pay. The only ones who would suffer, if you can even call it that, are the ones who are making really, really high salaries. I honestly believe if the company shared the wealth more evenly with the workforce, they would have a happier, more loyal workforce who would be willing to work harder to make good things happen. A happy, respected, well-paid employee is a GOOD employee. And unhappy, disrespected, under-paid employees, not so much.

Severe wage disparity is a real issue to contend with for sure. It is irresponsible for a company to force workers into low wages that are not at all proportional with the cost of living. Greed at the top can be astronomical and at times has resulted in the loss of thousands of jobs, homes, and cause undue stress and harm to countless families. However, it is just as irresponsible to assume every company, every executive, is this way and to call for artificial caps on all executive salaries because of the misdeeds of some, not all. There are moral and immoral people on every rung of the socio-economic ladder, executives and janitors alike. One thing to keep in mind is the exponentially increased responsibilities, not necessarily in terms of number but also weight, that come with many executive positions. I hate to use anecdotal evidence, but I can't help it in this case to at least just use a particular man as an example of an executive who does not at all fit this perceived mold of the greedy, money loving executive pig that lives off the work of others, in no way deserving of large salaries. My father is vice-president of sales & marketing and also head of the automotive division of the skin care company he works for. He is responsible for millions of dollars of sales a year, as well as product development and continued growth for the automotive division. He earns a tidy sum for his work, but he does in fact earn every penny of it. Our family enjoys upper-middle class wealth because of the hard work he puts in at the office every day and more often than not at home every weekend. He is constantly pouring over data, making reports, keeping up with market trends, staying in touch with distributors, clients, and keeping tabs on potential areas for growth as well as the competition. No he does not do the manual labor, drive the warehouse forklift, or come home dirty and sweaty like many of the workers at the plant do. But in no way does that reflect on the amount of time and effort he puts into his work, sometimes at the expense of time with the family because that's what his job requires.

What I am saying is that though he is compensated very well for his work, and there are undoubtedly some in this country who would like to see executives like him not make as much as they do just because of the principle of wage disparity, he is compensated in a manner that is proportional to his value to the company as a whole. His responsibilities and decisions weigh heavily on the direction and success of the entire company. He has acquired specific skills and experience over the years working his way up the corporate ladder that make him the right tool for the requirements of his job. It would be extremely unfair to him to cut his salary just to diminish wage disparity. Of course a company should reward its employees generously, including everyone at the bottom. But I find fault in allowing that mindset to blind a person to the fact that many executives actually deserve high pay. Not all of course, there are many that will bleed a company dry for their own personal benefit and toss its employees around with no regard for their income needs. But not every executive is like that, and I object to any sweeping assertion that every executive in corporate America should have an artificial wage cap. My father may make almost 6 times what the average worker in the plant does, but he again earns every penny of it. To artificially deny him that fair compensation, dictated by the head of the company, is greed in the opposite direction. Greed by those who think his work is just making powerpoint presentations and playing golf all day. Greed by those who assume an executive's job is among the easiest professions in the world, and because of that executives owe everyone below them a piece of their salary pie. I assure you, there are highly paid executives of some companies that deserve the pay they are rewarded.

The company my father works for is doing very well through this economic crisis, and they see no reason that it would not continue to do so for the foreseeable future. He is an instrumental part of keeping this healthy company afloat and moving amid the economic wreckage littering the corporate landscape in America. One may look at the fact that he makes 6 times the average plant worker (15 times what I made there as a summer intern a few years back) and shout "capitalist pig!", but the company is healthy and growing while others are in decline or failing completely because of the smart strategy and decision making by those at the top of the company.

My parents are both children of divorced households, alcoholic parents, and very poor socio-economic environments. One grew up in the ghetto of San Diego, running around barefoot eating only plain white toast for breakfast everyday and a single egg for lunch for years. The other grew up with the weight of being among the poorest kids at school, 12 years old walking home from swim practice alone at night while dad is drunk in a bar downtown and who eventually wrote him out of his will because he didn't want to keep working at the failing family radiator repair shop in the desert. My parents know what it is like to work dead-end jobs and have worked their way up the ladder of prosperity through determination so they could provide a better environment for their children than they had growing up. And they succeeded. I say all this because my father is a real person, my parents are real people, and he is not some evil corporate menace that feeds off the backs of the poor and the uneducated. My parents give generously to charity because they believe in helping other people through tough times, because they know exactly what it is like; they experienced it at the worst possible time in life. Anyone who says that my father's salary is unfair, he should have his pay capped and the difference spread thinly amongst the general employees can straight go to hell in my book. He is a man if integrity and does not "hoard his wealth from the masses". He gives and gives because he was once on the receiving end of that kind of giving.

Painting all executives with this biased brush of "they make 6 times as much as the factory worker so they must just be greedy pigs, lets take their income and give it to everyone else" is not only incredibly cold and selfish, but it is also a misguided and over correctional attempt for a perceived wrongdoing represented by the executives' high salaries. I'll say it again once more: many executives, especially of healthy companies, do much more work that the average American does not see. And it is this hard work, these weighty decisions, this forward thinking and progressive mindset towards growth for the entire company, that grants many (not all) executives salaries, though they are large, that are actually proportional to the work done and the value of the results of said work obtained by the company from the efforts of those executives.

Ok I'm done now.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

One may look at the fact that he makes 6 times the average plant worker

Which means he is not relevant to this topic. When executives were properly compensated, it was 17 times the average employee's salary. Today executives reap 50, 300, and higher times that average. Where the company is not productive, that number is highest.

Working hard says nothing. Sculley did same hard work for Apple Computer. Therefore Apple went into major decline.

Executives do not oversee $multimillion operations. Executives provide attitude and knowledge for those who oversee those $millions. That actual overseeing of those $millions are by the salesmen, production people, human resources coordinators, and other smaller people who actually do the overseeing. That is where real talent lies in a productive company.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

... It would be extremely unfair to him to cut his salary just to diminish wage disparity. Of course a company should reward its employees generously, including everyone at the bottom. But I find fault in allowing that mindset to blind a person to the fact that many executives actually deserve high pay. Not all of course, there are many that will bleed a company dry for their own personal benefit and toss its employees around with no regard for their income needs. But not every executive is like that, and I object to any sweeping assertion that every executive in corporate America should have an artificial wage cap. My father may make almost 6 times what the average worker in the plant does, but he again earns every penny of it. To artificially deny him that fair compensation, dictated by the head of the company, is greed in the opposite direction. Greed by those who think his work is just making powerpoint presentations and playing golf all day. Greed by those who assume an executive's job is among the easiest professions in the world, and because of that executives owe everyone below them a piece of their salary pie. I assure you, there are highly paid executives of some companies that deserve the pay they are rewarded...

Bullitt, kudos to your dad. You said he earned 6x what the average employee earns. That is in no way out of balance. I'm talking about the executives that earn hundreds x more. On average, a CEO makes close to 500x more than what the average employee earns. THAT is what I'm talking about. By the standards that I would apply, your dad would probably earn more, not less.

And ftr, I am demonizing ALL executives. I am only demonizing the greedy ones.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

From what I can tell, most lower paid and middle income workers already have to suffer the pay limitations of their job, regardless of how good they are or how hard they work.

Why should the same not apply to all levels?

No one has to suffer the pay limitations of their job. Each and every person is free to believe they are worth more. Some people just decide to do something with that belief.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by lookout123

No one has to suffer the pay limitations of their job. Each and every person is free to believe they are worth more. Some people just decide to do something with that belief.

If you believe that your view of the situation must be very simplistic, and I don't believe it's a simple issue. There are so many contributing factors to wages and why people 'settle' for the things they settle for. Sure people can decide to go and get more qualified or change jobs or be more entrepreneaurial (sp?), but sometimes it all just comes down to dumb luck, or being in the right place at the right time or knowing the right people etc. Usually it takes a lot more than just hard work.

[TheMercenary]

And I think that is actually going to get much worse as more people are out of work, people will be forced to put up with more crap from the boss and poor work conditons just to put food on the table.

[Aliantha]

Yep. absolutely.

It's a crying shame how much bullying goes on in the workplace!

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Yep. absolutely.

It's a crying shame how much bullying goes on in the workplace!

I agree. Employers are pretty terrible sometimes...and they get away with a lot, even with laws and limitations.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by case

I agree. Employers are pretty terrible sometimes...and they get away with a lot, even with laws and limitations.

I am already seeing and hearing fallout over the current economic conditions.

Ask anyone in the work force today how many times they have heard, "It's good to be employed." in the last 4 months.

[Aliantha]

That's a good point case.

I think the issue still needs addressing, although it's very likely that executive salaries will be normalized in due course thanks to the financial situation we're all facing.

[TheMercenary]

Thanks for your comments Bullit. Quite appropriate. As we thread drift back into that stream of what is "rich" and "haves and have-nots" it is refreshing to hear your comments. I have worked hard to get to where I am and work many long hours to provide for my family and give them better than what I had. I can relate to much of your story. Thanks again.

[lookout123]

Do they have any other benefits? Receive any other sources of income? How's their retirement plan?

[Queen of the Ryche]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Do they have any other benefits? Receive any other sources of income? How's their retirement plan?

I have a college education with some post grad studies - ended up in the financial industry. Have done the same job for 15 years, moved my way up- as my bosses income increased so did mine. One year support staff was told we had to choose one of our own to let go, or not take a cost of living increase. We opted for no raise - this was the same year the company donated $100 million to Harvard. (Harvard was a write off -we weren't.)
December of alst eyar the company decided to cut back - 3,000 jobs. I wa sone. Had nothing to do with the boss I had worked my way up with for fifteen years - the Comapny saw me as expendible. (Probably because I was at teh top of my pay scale.) I found work with another company within three weeks - I al now studying for a test that will give me a chance to increase my pay back to the level it was in December. I have chosen to better myself in order to improve my quality of life.

I did not choose to make my position worse, but I have chosen to take action to make it better.

/Rant off.

[TheMercenary]

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Hillary Clinton and former president Bill Clinton reported income of $109.2 million for 2000 to 2007, paying taxes of $33.8 million for that period, according to documents released Friday.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...60FE8147D34%7D