Computers the control the power grid have been hacked - Page 2

tw · 04-09-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

I think I'll take the opinions of those who actually know something about this than some blowhard on the internet.

How do you do that? How do you routinely disbelieve yourself? What page of the wacko extremist handbook tells you how to do that?

xoxoxoBruce · 04-09-2009, 10:58 PM

Being childish, as well as wrong, certainly isn't helping your credibility.

Beestie · 04-09-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

Former CIA operative Robert Baer:

...from a speech at the national defense university and they were hit by the Chinese ...

Bullshit. Without going into a long, boring explanation, suffice it to say that there is no way you can tell which country the hackers are coming from. For example, someone in the US could route the hack through a Chinese state computer to make it look like China was behind it. I wouldn't even put the US Government past doing that for political ends.

Either Baer is an idiot or he thinks we are.

TheMercenary · 04-11-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

Bullshit. Without going into a long, boring explanation, suffice it to say that there is no way you can tell which country the hackers are coming from. For example, someone in the US could route the hack through a Chinese state computer to make it look like China was behind it. I wouldn't even put the US Government past doing that for political ends.

With all due respect you are quite wrong.

Beestie · 04-11-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

With all due respect you are quite wrong.

I respectfully disagree.

Flint · 04-10-2009, 08:37 AM

Could cyber attackers bring down the U.S. electrical grid?

sugarpop · 04-10-2009, 12:13 PM

It's not like they haven't known FOR YEARS that we are vulnerable to this kind of attack...

From 2003: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cyberwar/

classicman · 04-10-2009, 01:03 PM

Excellent link Flint, thanks.

tw · 04-10-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

Excellent link Flint, thanks.

So read what is written:

Quote:

am a retired engineer, formerly employed by 2 electric utilities ... So I (think) I know a little about SCADA systems and how they operate.

EVERY SCADA system that I have ever seen use its own dedicated communication network to carry data between the Master Station (the “base”), and the substation Remote Terminal Units (RTU’s) and with the powerplants. The Master Station is manned 24 hours per day, seven days per week, 52 weeks per year. In other words, ALL THE TIME. So if something happens, the knowledgeable, experienced operator can take immediate steps to counteract the event.

How can this be if enemies are lurkering everywhere as classicman says?

Reality: risks to the grid are typically traceable to companies with a history of bad management. One company that has long been a concern is First Energy whose president (Anthony Alexander) did not even know how the grid works. Who was even in Seaside Heights NJ blaming those local blackouts on the township - and then the lights went out again while he was speaking.

The real risk to the grid are companies that do not implement industry standard practices. Not some evil being hiding under every bed as wackoboy claims. And yes, wackoboy - I am doing exactly what you were doing for months. However my facts come from reality - not from Rush Limbaugh and his peers.

04-11-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Reality: risks to the grid are typically traceable to companies with a history of bad management. One company that has long been a concern is First Energy whose president (Anthony Alexander) did not even know how the grid works. Who was even in Seaside Heights NJ blaming those local blackouts on the township - and then the lights went out again while he was speaking.

The real risk to the grid are companies that do not implement industry standard practices...

I think that pretty much sums it up.

IMO, the greatest failure of the last eight years in the area of national security was the near total lack of focus on securing the critical infrastructure - electric grid, water treatment facilities, nuclear plants, etc.

The failure resulted from a total reliance on voluntary compliance by the private industries in question...another failure of the free market that put profit above national security.

I would hope to see more federal spending and more mandatory infrastructure security requirements implemented.

sugarpop · 04-12-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux

I think that pretty much sums it up.

IMO, the greatest failure of the last eight years in the area of national security was the near total lack of focus on securing the critical infrastructure - electric grid, water treatment facilities, nuclear plants, etc.

The failure resulted from a total reliance on voluntary compliance by the private industries in question...another failure of the free market that put profit above national security.

I would hope to see more federal spending and more mandatory infrastructure security requirements implemented.

I agree with you, but I really want them to have to do it on their dime, and not be able to pass that expense on to their customers.

Flint · 04-10-2009, 02:18 PM

I look at Tech Republic every day.

TheMercenary · 04-11-2009, 11:21 AM

The NSA with the cooperation of various national governmental security agencies can track the origination of most anything. There have been a number of really good books over the years that documented how they do it. I could reference them if you are interested.

Beestie · 04-11-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I could reference them if you are interested.

I am interested - just pick the top one or two in the interest of time.

Sorry I can't reciprocate but my info comes from less than official channels.

TheMercenary · 04-11-2009, 12:35 PM

This was an early book that came out and much of the stuff this guy discovered lead many DOD computer systems to change the way they did business. It was a pretty good read.

The Cuckoo's Egg: Tracking a Spy Through the Maze of Computer Espionage

http://www.amazon.com/Cuckoos-Egg-Tr...470921&sr=1-11

This was a great read about how the NSA works, esp overseas in the UK and Aust.

Chatter: Dispatches from the Secret World of Global Eavesdropping

http://www.amazon.com/Chatter-Dispat...9471074&sr=1-2

This is a long assed read but well researched.

The Puzzle Palace: Inside the National Security Agency, America's Most Secret Intelligence Organization

http://www.amazon.com/Puzzle-Palace-...9471153&sr=1-4

04-09-2009, 10:58 PM	#2
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Being childish, as well as wrong, certainly isn't helping your credibility. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

04-10-2009, 08:37 AM	#6
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Could cyber attackers bring down the U.S. electrical grid? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

04-10-2009, 01:03 PM	#8
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Excellent link Flint, thanks. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

04-10-2009, 02:18 PM	#12
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I look at Tech Republic every day. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

04-11-2009, 11:21 AM	#13
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	The NSA with the cooperation of various national governmental security agencies can track the origination of most anything. There have been a number of really good books over the years that documented how they do it. I could reference them if you are interested. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

04-10-2009, 12:13 PM	#7
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	It's not like they haven't known FOR YEARS that we are vulnerable to this kind of attack... From 2003: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cyberwar/

04-11-2009, 12:35 PM	#15
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	This was an early book that came out and much of the stuff this guy discovered lead many DOD computer systems to change the way they did business. It was a pretty good read. The Cuckoo's Egg: Tracking a Spy Through the Maze of Computer Espionage http://www.amazon.com/Cuckoos-Egg-Tr...470921&sr=1-11 This was a great read about how the NSA works, esp overseas in the UK and Aust. Chatter: Dispatches from the Secret World of Global Eavesdropping http://www.amazon.com/Chatter-Dispat...9471074&sr=1-2 This is a long assed read but well researched. The Puzzle Palace: Inside the National Security Agency, America's Most Secret Intelligence Organization http://www.amazon.com/Puzzle-Palace-...9471153&sr=1-4 __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)