Joe the Plumber to become war correspondent

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I think if you look at the video, even though Joe came out of left field, Obama handled himself well, and tried to answer Joe's question honestly.

Now, his entourage was probably pissed about their carefully orchestrated rally being blindsided by Joe, but I maintain the Man himself performed well.

Eh, you are probably right about the handlers, but I still say he was completely caught off guard. And I like that. Puts the realism back into their lies.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sure he was, I strongly doubt he expected it, after attending 18 months of love fests, the latter of which were "professionally" organized. But again, the mark of a good leader is how he handles surprises, not the expected.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I think if you look at the video, even though Joe came out of left field, Obama handled himself well, and tried to answer Joe's question honestly.

Now, his entourage was probably pissed about their carefully orchestrated rally being blindsided by Joe, but I maintain the Man himself performed well.

I agree. I shudder to think how GWB would have handled it. Of course, in his mind he's always right.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Sorry I can't see bris posts, but now that I do I can only say, pssst, anyone who works doing plumbing everyday can call himself a plumber. The rest of the her post is bs. His question to Obama set him back on his heels and caught hiim off guard because even Obama couldn't really answer the question well and he was embarrassed on national tv. It was a great scene to see a politician, any of them, get put on the spot and challenged on all of the BS and lies they tell people to get them elected.

What lie? What embarrassment?

Obama answered the question well and completely.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Sorry I can't see bris posts, but now that I do I can only say, pssst, anyone who works doing plumbing everyday can call himself a plumber.

Aw, baby boy? Little ole me bothers you SO MUCH that you put me on ignore? I'm honored!

So, by your logic, anyone who works as a medic can call him/herself a doctor, anyone who helps a fellow human being out is a social worker and any drug dealer is an entreprenuer! (which, actually, happened. I recall seeing an obit in the Cellar of a young man who was posthumously described as such--a "young entreprenuer"---of, uh, crack. Hey, a business is a business)

Anyway, I am TOTALLY psyched about pissing you off so much. Means I'm getting my spirit back. EXHCELLENT!

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Aw, baby boy? Little ole me bothers you SO MUCH that you put me on ignore? I'm honored!

So, by your logic, anyone who works as a medic can call him/herself a doctor, anyone who helps a fellow human being out is a social worker and any drug dealer is an entreprenuer! (which, actually, happened. I recall seeing an obit in the Cellar of a young man who was posthumously described as such--a "young entreprenuer"---of, uh, crack. Hey, a business is a business)

Anyway, I am TOTALLY psyched about pissing you off so much. Means I'm getting my spirit back. EXHCELLENT!

Allow me to de-cloak that.

[Pico and ME]

Going back to Joe, I haz a cheezeburger has a funny one...

[Undertoad]

The Joe response was a gaffe by Obama, because he answered it with a tilt towards income redistribution for fairness' sake. This was never the wording he used when talking about his tax plan. He used the language of old-school Socialism, which is not appealing to 80% of Americans and which they had been very careful to avoid. This allowed the opposition to say the Obama plan was Socialism.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The Joe response was a gaffe by Obama, because he answered it with a tilt towards income redistribution for fairness' sake. This was never the wording he used when talking about his tax plan. He used the language of old-school Socialism, which is not appealing to 80% of Americans and which they had been very careful to avoid. This allowed the opposition to say the Obama plan was Socialism.

That's a matter of perception, he didn't actually say that. Hell, isn't the graduated tax system supposed to be about fairness?

Pundits trying to interpret what he meant by the change in the type/tone of language he used in a one on one with a voter, compared to the language he'd used in official campaign publications/statements, is bullshit. Anyone can get any interpretation they want with those parameters.

If he talked to Joe the way the official campaign publications are written, instead of talking to him man to man, trying to explain in a way he thought Joe would see why he was taking that position, I'd have tagged him as a phony.
It looked to me like Joe understood and respected the candor, but that's just my perception.

[TheMercenary]

Of course it is a matter of perception. Isn't all politics? The liberal left-wing saw a confident on the spot response to an unscripted question, the rest of the country saw a dude tripping over his previous statements to cover his ass. "No, it's not about income redistribution."

[Undertoad]

Okay, yeah, the main socialismo phrase he used was "spread the wealth", although that certainly wasn't the bulk of the discussion.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Of course it is a matter of perception. Isn't all politics? The liberal left-wing saw a confident on the spot response to an unscripted question, the rest of the country saw a dude tripping over his previous statements to cover his ass. "No, it's not about income redistribution."

Well, I don't think you can divide the nation into "the liberal left wing" and the "rest of the country". You've bunched the conservative right wing, the moderate left & right, the centrists, and the clueless together, in a united position. You know that ain't true on anything.

Cover his ass? Nah, presented with a voter that is hostile because he pictures himself in the 5% of the big money earners someday, what's he going to do? Say, nannie nannie boo boo, suck it up? No, he is going to explain exactly how it will affect Joe and present the facts that it's not as bad as Joe thinks it will be and a scenario where it might even be good for Joe. I wouldn't call that tripping all over previous statements.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Okay, yeah, the main socialismo phrase he used was "spread the wealth", although that certainly wasn't the bulk of the discussion.

I must have missed that. But those three words, in one speech, during a two year campaign, builds a pretty weak case. For the voters that feel that way, that wasn't much of a vindication.

As for Joe, if he hadn't been poked with a pointy stick by the McCain camp, I think he'd have been satisfied with Obama's answer. I don't claim he'd have been happy with the plan or voted for him, just satisfied with Obama's treating him with respect.

UT, I know you follow the political scene pretty closely and know who's in what camp, who's saying what, and the overall subtle shifts of positions in the ebb an flow.
I don't. I couldn't tell you who's who of the advisors or pundits, no less the positions or strengths. But I do have considerable contact with a lot of people that don't follow it closely. Sometimes they exasperate me with their level of disinterest, but I do hear what they think and most, of both parties thought Joe was a non-starter.
Probably because non of them make $250k

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Well, I don't think you can divide the nation into "the liberal left wing" and the "rest of the country". You've bunched the conservative right wing, the moderate left & right, the centrists, and the clueless together, in a united position. You know that ain't true on anything.

True, I would have to redact that statement and point out that those groups exist separate from each other as small enclaves, none of whom agree completely.

[classicman]

why, griff?

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by classicman

why, griff?

Because----cancer set me back a bit (yeah, I'm pulling the C card, deal) and now I'm feeling in more of a sparring spirit which maybe griff thinks is good. I don't hate merc the way he hates me----i find him (usually) funny, but lately he's a big cry baby one-trick-pony. HE hates. NOT me. so---I shouldn't be answering for Griff, but maybe that is why. He's happy for me. An alien concept to merc. To you, too, eh? I thought better of you.