View on the recent Gaza/Israel stikes

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That is not differenct from what Classic just said. In the end I don't see any specific point you are trying to make on this issue. And there is no way you can really defend Hamas. I don't like what Israel has done with targeting areas with so many civilians but they are going to do as much as they can to cut the head of Hamas off before they are forced, I think via international pressure, to back off. Time will tell.

I am making the point that the current view on the situation is flawed because of unrealistic ends. If we took a poll about the solution each dwellar would like to see on this issue, we would most likely see (and tell me if I'm wrong) something like....
"I would like to see the Palestinians stop firing rockets at Israel, which would allow Israel to stop firing rockets at Palestine, which would allow Israel to live in peace and supplies to go into Palestine"

I am saying that most likely can never be a realistic scenario because if that happened, the Palestinians could not be self-sustainable and will dependent on humanitarian supplies for an extremely long time. I have not seen anything to show that Palestinians will settle for that. It is possible, other cultures have settled for less, but as I said I have my large doubts.

Originally Posted by Classicman

I NEVER made that claim, far from it. No one should "live like dogs."

As I said earlier, by agreeing to this solution..."I would like to see the Palestinians stop firing rockets at Israel, which would allow Israel to stop firing rockets at Palestine, which would allow Israel to live in peace and supplies to go into Palestine"...it says the Palestinians should live like dogs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you an asshole or even says you want the Palestinians to live like dogs, but that is how the situation is. It would be similar to saying you would like to keep white privileged and get mad when someone points out that that you support racism (racial privileged is a product of racism).

With the blockade, 80% of Gazans are dependent on foreign aid, I don't have any number without it but it would still be high because the Palestinian economy is completely shot. To be fed food, especially by people that you accuse of taking your land, cutting you off from the rest of the world, and starving you, can be considered living like a dog. If no more rockets were fired from this day forward, the economic situation in Palestine would not be different, it would still be shot and Palestinians would still be fed from outside sources.

So even if you don't believe any person or population should live like dogs, by saying that the rockets should stop and everyone live in peace you will also be saying the Palestinians will need to be fed from outside sources. If you want one, you get the other.

Originally Posted by classicman

What's their plan B? Cuz history has proved that one isn't going to work.

Death? Keep in mind, Hamas could only be temporary. Hamas is looked at in high regards because it is standing up against Israel, not necessarily because of their ideals.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

cite

I could find the quote that said that many Gazans are now becoming more supportive of Hamas but here is two other quotes for Fatah supporters.

The scope of the attacks swayed even some longtime Fatah members – and diehard Hamas opponents. A former interior ministry employee, who abided by Ramallah’s call for PA security to boycott the Hamas government, told Crisis Group that for the first five days of the bombing campaign, he was glad that Hamas was getting its comeuppance: “Israel did it to Fatah. Then Hamas did it to Fatah. Now Israel is doing it to Hamas”. But on the sixth day, with his children inconsolable after their house was heavily damaged in the attack on the justice ministry, he changed his tone: “Israel never did anything this bad to Fatah and neither did Hamas. It’s clear who the real enemy is. This is aggression against the institutions that serve the
people, against what we [the PA] built; it’s all been destroyed”.47 Another self-described former “Hamas hater” too had a change of heart, extolling the “Islamic model” over the “corruption” of the PA and its Arab allies. When asked the reason for this conversion, he replied, “They are destroying mosques. They don’t want children to know about the Koran or their religion”.48

http://www.crisisgroup.org/library/d...ar_in_gaza.pdf

The lack of interest was not, for certain, lack of support for Hamas. Fury is rising here over the war in Gaza, as are support for Hamas and anger with the Palestinian Authority in this city, which has long been the beating heart of opposition to Israeli occupation of the West Bank. Many want the authority and the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas of the Fatah party, to do more to criticize Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/wo...ed=1&ref=world

Originally Posted by Undertoad

1) European news sources?

No, United States.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

2) This is confused, isn't it? News sources report facts, opinion sources criticize. When the news sources criticize we can no longer trust their facts.

I was not talking about open criticism. Sources can display certain facts in certain ways to make the situation seem like it happened a certain way. The facts given are not wrong but there is much more than what is seen.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

"Hamas has nothing left but rockets"

So Islamic papers are saying Hamas won and Jewish papers say Hamas has lost? I don't know the credibilities but what are you trying to point out?