Saving the US Auto Industry

[TheMercenary]

http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2008/12...surprised.html

Did you know that your Senators and your Congressmen are getting a $5,000 raise on January 1st?

That must be for all of the great work that they have done spending your tax dollars and putting your grandchildren on the hook for trillions and trillions of dollars.

.. how many of you out there who own your own business are giving $5,000 cost of living adjustments to your employees right now? How many of you have worked for years without a raise that won't even keep up with inflation? Or a raise at all?

Congress is getting one....all thanks to your tax dollars.

[glatt]

And pretty much every one of them could make more in private practice.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

And pretty much every one of them could make more in private practice.

I am not sure of the point, but don't you think a raise at this point is in bad taste considering the current state of affairs?

[lookout123]

We'll just call that their morality bonus. I'm sure they deserve it.

[lookout123]

In the short term or what they'll make over the next 25 years?

[glatt]

I'm just saying I don't think they are overpaid. $169,300 a year is not a lot for someone in that type of position.

Edit: It's a 2.95 % raise. Even I got a bigger raise than that this year.

Edit again: And consider that every one of them has two residences to maintain. One in DC and one in their home jurisdiction.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

I'm just saying I don't think they are overpaid. $169,300 a year is not a lot for someone in that type of position.

Agreed. But I do think they need to consider that they serve at the will of the people, for the people. They can reap their bennies upon exit from the Congress where they gain their popularity and can become rich later, after service. I would suggest that all levels of government, including retirement, and the military, forgo any cost of living increases or raises until things smooth out in a few years. JMHO

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Agreed. But I do think they need to consider that they serve at the will of the people, for the people. They can reap their bennies upon exit from the Congress where they gain their popularity and can become rich later, after service. I would suggest that all levels of government, including retirement, and the military, forgo any cost of living increases or raises until things smooth out in a few years. JMHO

I will go along with that once a worker on a GM assembly line agrees to give up some of their 70 bucks an hour as a small sacrifice for saving their own jobs and livelihood. That's approximately 145 grand a year some of them make for the responsibility of putting a nut on a bolt. And in the grand scheme, aren't the wages of lower and higher level workers at GM, the subsequent failed business model, the domino effect of all the related businesses failing a huge part of our financial crisis in the first place?

Public service perhaps shouldn't make a billion dollars an hour, but the wages shouldn't be so low as to preclude anyone from ever even considering it as a viable employment option. As it is, the responsibilities they have are not really in line with what high level executives are paid. Small sacrifice for the greater good.

Exactly what selfish GM should do. Given the choice of sacrificing a bit (and still making a wage most of us will never ever see, even those of us in professional positions) or just letting the whole thing fall apart resulting in much worse economic conditions, the choice seems to be "fuck it...let it fall apart. I won't give up NUTTIN'."

I find this attitude puke-worthy.

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I will go along with that once a worker on a GM assembly line agrees to give up some of their 70 bucks an hour as a small sacrifice for saving their own jobs and livelihood. That's approximately 145 grand a year some of them make for the responsibility of putting a nut on a bolt. And in the grand scheme, aren't the wages of lower and higher level workers at GM, the subsequent failed business model, the domino effect of all the related businesses failing a huge part of our financial crisis in the first place?

Public service perhaps shouldn't make a billion dollars an hour, but the wages shouldn't be so low as to preclude anyone from ever even considering it as a viable employment option. As it is, the responsibilities they have are not really in line with what high level executives are paid. Small sacrifice for the greater good.

Exactly what selfish GM should do. Given the choice of sacrificing a bit (and still making a wage most of us will never ever see, even those of us in professional positions) or just letting the whole thing fall apart resulting in much worse economic conditions, the choice seems to be "fuck it...let it fall apart. I won't give up NUTTIN'."

I find this attitude puke-worthy.

You are seriously misinformed here Shawnee. The average hourly wage for an Autoworker is more like $28/hr and it only encompasses about 10% of the companies total expenses. Starting pay is actually $12 -13/hr, which is a result of the latest concessions given to the companies from the union.

The $70/hr is a total package the companies put together to represent hourly wage, overtime (which there has been little to none in the last year), vacation and health benefits, and pension and health benefits for retirees...which by the way is the main drain. The Jap companies do not have the same problem because they haven't been in business here for decades and so do not have the same retirees to deal with.

Blaming the union autoworkers for this downfall is just wrong and is really the result of the anti-union campaign that the companies have been working on and spending millions on for years now.

My husband has been a union auto worker for 12 years. We are not living high off the hog and nowhere near it. Also, he had to have neck surgery due to two herniated disks that immobilized his right arm. This injury was more than likely caused by the job...the stress of repetition is pretty hard on the body. Our doctor said that he sees most of this back and neck injuries from the autoworkers. Tell me Shawnee, is $60,000 a year worth it to you if it means your are going to suffer pain and disability for the rest of your retirement years as a result?

[lookout123]

Very few of those guys are there for the annual salary, I think. The perks package might be attractive though.

How many terms do they have to serve before they qualify for retirement?
How's that medical plan?
How about travel fees?
OooohOoooh, and speaking fees after they're ousted?
Book advances?
Lobbiest jobs?

And those are just some of their legal sources of income.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Very few of those guys are there for the annual salary, I think. The perks package might be attractive though.

How many terms do they have to serve before they qualify for retirement?
How's that medical plan?
How about travel fees?
OooohOoooh, and speaking fees after they're ousted?
Book advances?
Lobbiest jobs?

And those are just some of their legal sources of income.

Yes, there are lots of perks. But those perks don't pay the bills until after they leave congress. They make about the same as a junior level lawyer at a big firm, but have to maintain two residences.

I've got a much bigger problem with CEO salaries that are hundreds or thousands of time greater than the national average than I have with these guys who make three or four times the national average.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by glatt

Yes, there are lots of perks. But those perks don't pay the bills until after they leave congress. They make about the same as a junior level lawyer at a big firm, but have to maintain two residences.

I'd like to see who is paying for that 2nd residence too and all the travel time between them.

Originally Posted by glatt

I've got a much bigger problem with CEO salaries that are hundreds or thousands of time greater than the national average than I have with these guys who make three or four times the national average.

That doesn't let these guys off the hook though. Granted the CEO's are making way too much as well, but for congress to take a raise while asking others to tighten up and sacrifice "for he good of all" is sickening.

[xoxoxoBruce]

"That type of position"? What is comparable, Al Capone? No wait, he worked full time.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

"That type of position"? What is comparable, Al Capone? No wait, he worked full time.

Nicely played.

I'll be getting the 0% cost of living adjustment, so we can maintain full staffing. excepting that person who was escorted out...

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by glatt

I'm just saying I don't think they are overpaid. $169,300 a year is not a lot for someone in that type of position.

Edit: It's a 2.95 % raise. Even I got a bigger raise than that this year.

But there are an awful lot of voters who took massive payCUTS this year. Eh, I don't really blame anyone for taking more money, it just seems like a pretty dumb move when the clamoring is about poor american, unemployment, and a soaring deficit. Yet more good PR work from the men and women in DC.