obama nation

[Pie]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I would not revile those who lived under different rules and a different cultural view of the world.

<devil's>But if they're no better (and no worse) than any other peoples, why bother knowing? What difference would it make?</advocate>

[warch]

Or maybe she took one of those National Geographic sponsored DNA screenings to see how much of herself she should be proud of and how much she should revile.

Hmm. The multiple broadcasts that fascinated me on PBS, using dna plus historical records to trace families of black Americans were quite moving and hardly the racist affair you flippantly describe. I was struck by how intertwined and complicated the shared history, and how the connections served to challenge simplistic notions of race.

[Sundae]

I would love to have my DNA traced. Nothing to do with hating what has happened in the past. People are people are people. I doubt there's been a society that doesn't have murder and mayhem somewhere in its history.

I have Irish blood in my veins, should I cut myself to let some of the English blood out because of the Potato Famine? If I found I had Norman blood, should I rail against the Conquest?

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

If I found I had Norman blood, should I rail against the Conquest?

It WOULD be interesting if you did...but, nah. Don't do it.

[warch]

Rail against the Conquest

I smell a band name....

[Pie]

On a more serious note, what does it mean to have this blood or that blood in your veins? Aside from certain genetic diseases or predispositions, what is the importance?

I am genetically Indian, brown skin and all, raised in the vast maw that is American culture. Which is more important? What claim should my Indian heritage have? If the answer is "none", then why should anyone care about things that may or may not exist in their own pedigree?

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Pie

On a more serious note, what does it mean to have this blood or that blood in your veins? Aside from certain genetic diseases or predispositions, what is the importance?

I am genetically Indian, brown skin and all, raised in the vast maw that is American culture. Which is more important? What claim should my Indian heritage have? If the answer is "none", then why should anyone care about things that may or may not exist in their own pedigree?

Because where we are from, is the very story of our existence. What does it matter? Look at the story it tells us. That's worth knowing. No less than it is worth knowing the thoughts and actions of great statesmen.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Because where we are from, is the very story of our existence. What does it matter? Look at the story it tells us. That's worth knowing. No less than it is worth knowing the thoughts and actions of great statesmen.

Where we are from is where we were born, grew, were educated, shared, and played with as children. Where we are from has little to do with what preceded our existence.

Yes, genetics determines health, skin color, and ancestry. But these are so important and significant only to the most biased - who must make judgments based primarily on first impressions. Judging one based upon first impressions is also called racism.

Those genetic factors do contribute. But by far, we are mostly from where we came from which means mostly what occurs after birth.

Only reason that genetics are important: too many people are so racist as to judge only based upon first impressions. Those who judge us based upon who we are need no genetic information to know. Judgments based significantly on genetic information is just another way of judging only based upon first impressions - a concept we often call racism and a major source of unjustified hate.

Yes, if you live in a world where being a rag head, spic, wop, or gook means you cannot be trusted, then you live in a world of racists. Then genetics are imperative to who you are.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by tw

Where we are from is where we were born, grew, were educated, shared, and played with as children. Where we are from has little to do with what preceded our existence.

Yes, genetics determines health, skin color, and ancestry. But these are so important and significant only to the most biased - who must make judgments based primarily on first impressions. Judging one based upon first impressions is also called racism.

Those genetic factors do contribute. But by far, we are mostly from where we came from which means mostly what occurs after birth.

Only reason that genetics are important: too many people are so racist as to judge only based upon first impressions. Those who judge us based upon who we are need no genetic information to know. Judgments based significantly on genetic information is just another way of judging only based upon first impressions - a concept we often call racism and a major source of unjustified hate.

Yes, if you live in a world where being a rag head, spic, wop, or gook means you cannot be trusted, then you live in a world of racists. Then genetics are imperative to who you are.

I totally disagree with most of this statement.

Where my parents came from and the things that influenced their lives had a great influence on mine. They became the parents they were because of their social, emotional and economic circumstances during childhood right up to the time of my birth and beyond which of course affected how they parented me and what sort of examples they set for me as a child.

The same can be said of their parents and their parents parents ad nauseum, so yes, what happened to my ancestors does have a direct effect on who I am today, without one shadow of a doubt in my mind.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I totally disagree with most of this statement.

Where my parents came from and the things that influenced their lives had a great influence on mine. They became the parents they were because of their social, emotional and economic circumstances during childhood right up to the time of my birth and beyond which of course affected how they parented me and what sort of examples they set for me as a child.

The same can be said of their parents and their parents parents ad nauseum, so yes, what happened to my ancestors does have a direct effect on who I am today, without one shadow of a doubt in my mind.

But what if you were switched at birth and no one knew?

[Pie]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

The same can be said of their parents and their parents parents ad nauseum, so yes, what happened to my ancestors does have a direct effect on who I am today, without one shadow of a doubt in my mind.

I wasn't asking about history that has a direct influence, via one's parents and upbringing. I am talking about getting a genetic assay to find out that some percentage of your DNA is from, say, Mongolia.

Why would this be relevant to anyone?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Pie

On a more serious note, what does it mean to have this blood or that blood in your veins? Aside from certain genetic diseases or predispositions, what is the importance?

I am genetically Indian, brown skin and all, raised in the vast maw that is American culture. Which is more important? What claim should my Indian heritage have? If the answer is "none", then why should anyone care about things that may or may not exist in their own pedigree?

In America and in today's world it should mean nothing. It carries very little weight with me, other than a personal historical significance. We all have a history attached to our genes. I am fasinated by it, for myself, and for my own personal interest. But I do not buy into an idea that it should continue as some social construct to be passed from generation to generation as a burden or a guilt that is held up at every conflict between those of unlike genetic history.

[DanaC]

Where we are from is where we were born, grew, were educated, shared, and played with as children. Where we are from has little to do with what preceded our existence.

You do know you are talking to an historian right?

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

You do know you are talking to an historian right?

We discussed this almost a decade ago. History is not unique to any one race (and definitively not unique to genetics). Greek history is the history of all mankind. Chinese history is the history of all mankind. We all inherit our common history.

What makes a person is not the history of his ancestors. What makes a person is how he learns from history of all previous peoples. But what more makes a person (assuming the bias called first impression or racism is universally condemned) are what he learns from his childhood, neighborhoods, education, and social experiences.

Ever meet a Korean girl who speaks with a heavy southern accent?

Genetics only most significant to a person when our peers are racist - also known as judgments based upon first impressions.

Apparently you have a point. Obviously, I am having difficulty grasping what that point is.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by DanaC

You do know you are talking to an historian right?

an historian> does that have something to do with your uterus?