Does Anyone feel like Bailing

[classicman]

GM may pull plug on Saturn

GM officials say options include overhauling the lineup, partnering with another carmaker, selling the brand and, potentially, sending Saturn off to the junkyard.

GM's Swedish luxury brand Saab might also be sold, and Pontiac could be transformed into a "niche" brand inside other dealerships.

But the decision to consider pulling the plug on Saturn, the agile little start-up that GM developed to reinvent the way it produced and sold cars, is a bitter reminder of just how deep the automaker's troubles run.

One down, two or three more to go.

[TheMercenary]

"But the decision to consider pulling the plug on Saturn, the agile little start-up that GM developed to reinvent the way it produced and sold cars, is a bitter reminder of just how deep the automaker's troubles run."

WOW. If anything had value to be sold off I would think it would be Saturn. They certainly have a better rep than Pontiac or most other GM cars. I just can't believe that someone out there would not be interested in scooping that up.

[classicman]

Big Three Spending Millions On Lobbying

(CBS) As Congress mulls over a bailout for U.S. automakers, some may be thinking about more than jobs and the economy.

The auto industry spent nearly $50 million lobbying Congress in the first nine months of this year.

And people tied to the auto industry gave another $15 million in campaign contributions, CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports.

Sen. Carl Levin, received $438,304 from the automotive industry.
Rep. Joe Knollenberg received $879,327.
Rep. John Dingell got nearly a million from the industry. All have enjoyed generous support from the auto industry over their careers, with GM and Ford as their two top contributors.
All support a bailout.

But nobody's been a bigger advocate for Motor City interests than Dingell. And for him, the stakes aren't just political, they're personal.

"There's an actual conflict," said Ryan Alexander of the nonprofit group Taxpayers for Common Sense. "His personal financial health, you know, the wealth of his family is tied up in the car industry."

Dingell's wife Debbie once worked as a lobbyist for GM.

When she married the congressman, she became a senior GM executive at an undisclosed salary. And we found the couple has extensive GM assets.

Dingell's current financial disclosure filed in May lists GM stock worth up to $350,000, options worth up to $1 million more, and a GM pension fund. In 2000, among the Dingells' GM assets were stock options worth up to $5 million.

Bout time someone started calling these guys out - I wonder who else is tied in with al this. I'm sure there have to be some R's too.

Put 'em all on report, Jim!

[tw]

From the NY Times of 3 Dec 2008:

With Saturn, G.M. Failed a Makeover
“I’m absolutely convinced that the Saturn way could have worked,” said Michael Bennett, the original U.A.W. leader at Saturn. “But what we had was never embraced or adopted.” ...

Mr. Bennett blamed a lack of interest by G.M. executives who succeeded Roger Smith, who as chief executive in the 1980s committed $5 billion to begin Saturn.

But those who followed him — including John F. Smith Jr., who became chief executive in 1992, and G.M.’s current chief executive, Rick Wagoner, who ran its North American operations in the 1990s — had bigger worries.

They had to lead the company through the financial turbulence at G.M. in the early 1990s. And with managers at G.M.’s other, older brands begging for investment, G.M. executives declared Saturn would have to prove it deserved more support, even though its small cars were accomplishing their main goal of winning buyers from imports.

Despite G.M.’s pledge that Saturn would be run as a separate company, with its own car development and purchasing operations, it was folded into G.M.’s small-car operations in 1994, and its lineup did not receive any new models for the next five years.

Saturn's success is directly traceable to significant independence from GM's MBA corporate executives. Once that independence was lost, Saturn began dying as quickly as all other GM division. Just another example of why GM's #1 problem centers on Rick Wagoner.

Last I heard, GM repeatedly promises a new product for Spring Hill TN (the famous Saturn plant) and then takes it away. Another symptom of an MBA boss - indecision.

[lookout123]

he told them he likes his current rate and doesn't need future borrowing privileges. they chose not to close his available credit anyway.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by lookout123

he told them he likes his current rate and doesn't need future borrowing privileges. they chose not to close his available credit anyway.

And that is how a gentleman tells someone to fuck off.

[classicman]

Auto bailout could be tied to gov't-run overhaul

WASHINGTON (AP) - The government would order a major restructuring of Detroit's struggling Big Three auto companies in exchange for a multibillion-dollar bailout under a plan circulating in Congress.

Skeptical lawmakers are weighing whether to dole out as much as $34 billion in aid to the automakers as the once-mighty companies make their second round of pleas for government help to keep them from collapsing by year's end and potentially deepening an already painful recession.

With several lawmakers in both parties pressing them to consider a pre-negotiated bankruptcy - something they have consistently shunned - members of Congress and the Big Three both were contemplating a government-run restructuring that would yield similar results, including massive downsizing and labor givebacks.

U.S. auto executives were appearing before the House Financial Services Committee for the second time to outline their plans for staying afloat with a government infusion.

The rescue, though, was facing fresh obstacles in Congress, with lawmakers still unconvinced they should support yet another bailout and congressional officials saying a leading proposal for helping the carmakers wouldn't come close to covering the cost.

"We're looking at a death sentence" for the auto companies, Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., the Senate Banking Committee chairman, said Thursday, pledging to try to help the Big Three. He quickly added, "I'm not a miracle worker and no one here is."

Finding the money was proving to be an uphill battle. Congressional budget analysts said one leading proposal - to use an already approved fund set aside for making cars environmentally efficient - would provide just $7.5 billion - a fraction of what General Motors Corp. (GM), Ford Motor Co. (F) and Chrysler LLC say they need.

Democratic congressional leaders are leaning on President George W. Bush to instead tap into the already enacted $700 billion Wall Street bailout fund to aid the auto industry, arguing that a carmaker collapse would have a devastating impact on the financial firms the program is designed to help.

The Bush administration has said it has no intention of doing so, arguing that the money was supposed to be for financial institutions, and instead wants to convert the fuel-efficiency money into emergency loans.

Auto state lawmakers are threatening to block the administration from accessing the second half of the financial rescue fund unless it comes to the aid of the Big Three.

And President-elect Barack Obama wasn't stepping forward with an alternative. Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., who has been dealing with both the financial bailout and the auto rescue proposal as chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said Obama is "going to have to be more assertive than he's been."

Repentant after a botched first crack at bailout pleas, the companies' executives said they were willing to overhaul their companies and own up to past errors.

"We made mistakes, which we're learning from," GM chief Rick Wagoner said. Ford CEO Alan Mulally also acknowledged big missteps, saying his company's approach once was "If you build it, they will come."

"We produced more vehicles than our customers wanted, then slashed prices," he said. But as a result of these past mistakes, "we are really focused," he said.

United Auto Workers union President Ron Gettelfinger, aligned with the industry in pressing for the aid, told senators that any kind of bankruptcy, even a prepackaged one, was not "a viable option." Gettelfinger said consumers would not buy autos from bankrupt companies, no matter the terms of the arrangement.

He also warned that without action by Congress: "I believe we could lose General Motors by the end of this month." He said the situation was dire.

It wasn't enough for some skeptics.

"I don't know how they're going to make it," Sen. Richard C. Shelby, R-Ala., said of the automakers. "If they called this a plan to get money, the bankers all over the world would laugh."

Even sympathetic Democrats said it was difficult to find a way to help the Big Three with time running out on this year's Congress.

"Can it be done in the next week?" said Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind. "That's a tough lift."

[ZenGum]

.... I find myself disinclined to acquiesce to your request ...

[tw]

There may be two more 'shoes to fall'. Suggested was that credit card companies and pension funds will need government protection.

Obviously top of the pension fund list is GM's. GM was routinely shorting the pension fund to claim profits - to make top management look good.

Many are asking questions of Capital One who attracted (with low interest rates) customers that never pay off the balance. Captial One then hikes those interest rates higher on a slightest excuse.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

Many are asking questions of Capital One who attracted (with low interest rates) customers that never pay off the balance. Captial One then hikes those interest rates higher on a slightest excuse.

That was not just Capital one, thats the most common trick of a low-end, bottom feeder, deceptive lender.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

That was not just Capital one, ...

Obviously I never said Captial One was the only one. Capital One is simply a benchmark of companies considered a prime example of the what may be the next 'shoe to fall'. Another pending 'shoe' may be pension funds. Why do you again ignore what was posted? Why do you routinely post with no useful facts? Why do you never demonstrate knowledge?

[classicman]

Your writing style is very unclear. Your last post, like many of your posts are written in a most unusual style, leaving the reader to guess at some of your intent. You seemed to single Capital One out for some reason and I was simply clarifying that. Your welcome!

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Your writing style is very unclear.

At what point does "credit card companies" somehow become "credit card company"? [quote=tw;511346]There may be two more 'shoes to fall'. Suggested was that credit card companies ... will need government protection. ...

Many are asking questions of Capital One ... [quote] How did Capital One become all "credit card companies"? Cited was a problem - "credit card companies" - and a benchmark example - "Capital One".

Post did not say "company". It said "companies". Please read what was posted. Capital One was singled out as an example. Some "credit card companies" (ie Capital One) are described by others at particularly high risk - an example of the maybe 'next shoe to fall'.

[classicman]

I read what you wrote, the implication was still there whether it was intended or not. Geez relax!

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

I read what you wrote, ...

Then deal with what was written. The topic in this thread is "Bailing". Meltdown in the credit card companies (ie massive interest increases on people who can least afford it) and pension funds (which is simply another irresponsible financial organization that all Americans get to pay for - ie via PBGC) are looming crisis yet to implode.

Once upon a time, some Americans foolishly worried about a mythical sucking sound into Mexico. We have finally discovered sources of that sucking sound. It resides among us. Writing was on the wall. A 2% reduction of the average American income over these past 8 years. A $2billion war that now costs over $1000billion. Worse, we even voted for it.

Sucking has probably only started. How much will be sucked into oblivion? How many more implosions are awaiting us? Pension funds and credit card companies are two latest concerns.