Science, Religion, and the Surrounding Confusion. - Page 2

Cloud · 07-08-2008, 10:08 AM

When I was in college taking geology, people didn't quite believe in plate tectonics, either. Oh, they espoused it as a theory, but wouldn't go far enough to actually commit.

lookout123 · 07-08-2008, 11:25 AM

and i'll be damned if i buy into that crackpot theory, cloud.

BigV · 07-08-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

and i'll be damned if i buy into that crackpot theory, cloud.

Agreed.

Where the hell did you go to school, Cloud? Pangea?

Cloud · 07-08-2008, 11:38 AM

'xactly. It's Poseidon Earth Shaker!

It was weird, because you could tell the professors believed in it, but they weren't allowed to teach it as accepted scientific fact; they had to teach it along with --- whatever the hell the theory was before then--magma displacement?

. . . No, that's Hunt for Red October, darn.

SamIam · 07-08-2008, 12:48 PM

Science and faith are mutually exclusive. Some people are just so frightened that they put blinders on themselves and cannot or will not see anything outside of their own narrowly based view of things. When I was in junior high, my parents made the mistake of placing me in a school run by a branch of the Luthern church. The pastor blithely told us that God created the fossils. End of discussion.

More recently, I happened to encounter a woman who is a member of the Pentecostal faith. She described with much enthusiasm how God sends unbaptized infants to burn in hell. That brand of "spirituality" makes me sick. I was challenged to explain my own point of view, but I wasn't going to touch that one with a ten foot burning bush. I merely said to her, "I respect your belief, but I do not share it." Even that statement was incendiary. Shereplied angrily, "Its not my belief, its God's own truth."

Whatever.

lookout123 · 07-08-2008, 01:23 PM

If you want to stop her in her tracks just ask her to show you the scripture that crap came from. This doesn't invite an argument about the truthfulness of THE faith, it only asks her to support her faith with evidence from the basis of her faith.

there is a lot of "christian" theology that has no basis whatsoever in the Bible. so where does it come from?

Flint · 07-08-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

...
there is a lot of "christian" theology that has no basis whatsoever in the Bible. so where does it come from?

From the same place that the stuff that IS in the Bible came from. Somebody thought it, somebody said it, somebody wrote it down.

But I understand your point. I don't think that the Bible says an overwhelming majority of what I hear people describing as the basis for their faith.

lookout123 · 07-08-2008, 03:59 PM

OK, point taken Flint. You don't believe in the Bible as the God authored, man written word... yadayadayada. but the people you are having the discussion with DO. If they believe that the Bible is the word of God and they further believe that man's ideas are of no significance next to God's, ask them to show you where their theological points come from - chapter and verse.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-08-2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamIam

Science and faith are mutually exclusive.

Not true, it depends on what your faith is in. I might go along with, Science and the church leadership are mutually exclusive, though.

Pico and ME · 07-09-2008, 06:20 AM

I would think that the religious community's negative knee-jerk reaction to scientific ideas stems from way back when those type of ideas seriously threatened the 'Church's' power...for instance, when Galileo proposed that the earth revolved around the sun. The Church didnt play around...threats like these were handled.

It is mind-blowing to me, that, people who are now so thoroughly exposed to science, can still discount it in favor religious dogma.

I've finally come to the realization that the human race isnt really all that evolved yet. And may never be.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-09-2008, 10:46 AM

Pico, the reaction to Galileo by "The Church", although I think you're right, refers to one religious community.

jinx · 07-09-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

..for instance, when Galileo proposed that the earth revolved around the sun. The Church didnt play around...threats like these were handled.

Just a point of order, but the church's reason for the Injunction against Galileo was that he was teaching and gathering evidence (with his shiny new telescope) for Copernicus' heliocentric theory, not that he proposed it himself.

SamIam · 07-10-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Not true, it depends on what your faith is in. I might go along with, Science and the church leadership are mutually exclusive, though.

Well, at the risk of arguing semantics, I disagree. Faith is jumping right in and believing something without any proof that the belief is valid. Science, on the other hand, demands proof. I can say that I place my faith in science, but what I'm really saying is that logical reasoning leads me to accept the conclusions of science.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

you just wonder how much that particular food lobby paid for that bit of reporting.

Absolutely. Scientists are only human and the quest for funding can be desperate. Its always interesting to see who funded the latest and greatested scientific study and what that study "proves". When I went to grad school, one of my favorite courses was one I came to call "Lying with Statistics." The University called it "Biometry." I was very impressed how a change of sampling technique or statistical model could completely skew the results of a study 180 degrees from what a different method would show. Its no wonder that the public is skeptical.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-10-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamIam

Well, at the risk of arguing semantics, I disagree. Faith is jumping right in and believing something without any proof that the belief is valid. Science, on the other hand, demands proof. I can say that I place my faith in science, but what I'm really saying is that logical reasoning leads me to accept the conclusions of science.

So what's the problem? Are you incapable of determining where faith vs proof should be applied?
I will grant you, some people seem to have that handicap, but it's not by any means mandatory. Therefore I disagree with juju's assertion that science and religion are mutually exclusive.

Pico and ME · 07-11-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamIam

Well, at the risk of arguing semantics, I disagree. Faith is jumping right in and believing something without any proof that the belief is valid.

There is no faith (as in religion) without serious indocrination....or as I like to say, brain-washing.

07-08-2008, 10:08 AM	#1
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	When I was in college taking geology, people didn't quite believe in plate tectonics, either. Oh, they espoused it as a theory, but wouldn't go far enough to actually commit. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

07-08-2008, 11:25 AM	#2
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	and i'll be damned if i buy into that crackpot theory, cloud. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-08-2008, 11:38 AM	#4
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	'xactly. It's Poseidon Earth Shaker! It was weird, because you could tell the professors believed in it, but they weren't allowed to teach it as accepted scientific fact; they had to teach it along with --- whatever the hell the theory was before then--magma displacement? . . . No, that's Hunt for Red October, darn. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

07-08-2008, 01:23 PM	#6
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	If you want to stop her in her tracks just ask her to show you the scripture that crap came from. This doesn't invite an argument about the truthfulness of THE faith, it only asks her to support her faith with evidence from the basis of her faith. there is a lot of "christian" theology that has no basis whatsoever in the Bible. so where does it come from? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-08-2008, 03:59 PM	#8
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	OK, point taken Flint. You don't believe in the Bible as the God authored, man written word... yadayadayada. but the people you are having the discussion with DO. If they believe that the Bible is the word of God and they further believe that man's ideas are of no significance next to God's, ask them to show you where their theological points come from - chapter and verse. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-08-2008, 12:48 PM	#5
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	Science and faith are mutually exclusive. Some people are just so frightened that they put blinders on themselves and cannot or will not see anything outside of their own narrowly based view of things. When I was in junior high, my parents made the mistake of placing me in a school run by a branch of the Luthern church. The pastor blithely told us that God created the fossils. End of discussion. More recently, I happened to encounter a woman who is a member of the Pentecostal faith. She described with much enthusiasm how God sends unbaptized infants to burn in hell. That brand of "spirituality" makes me sick. I was challenged to explain my own point of view, but I wasn't going to touch that one with a ten foot burning bush. I merely said to her, "I respect your belief, but I do not share it." Even that statement was incendiary. Shereplied angrily, "Its not my belief, its God's own truth." Whatever.

07-09-2008, 06:20 AM	#10
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	I would think that the religious community's negative knee-jerk reaction to scientific ideas stems from way back when those type of ideas seriously threatened the 'Church's' power...for instance, when Galileo proposed that the earth revolved around the sun. The Church didnt play around...threats like these were handled. It is mind-blowing to me, that, people who are now so thoroughly exposed to science, can still discount it in favor religious dogma. I've finally come to the realization that the human race isnt really all that evolved yet. And may never be.

07-09-2008, 10:46 AM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Pico, the reaction to Galileo by "The Church", although I think you're right, refers to one religious community. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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