The Supreme Court May Finally Do Something Right!

[Shawnee123]

Hey all you constitution scholars (hereafter known as CS): I have a question regarding what is being said here.

Radar, you say that a right cannot be regulated or revoked, while a privelege can be. However, what about "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? What I mean is don't CS people say those are human rights? Now, when somone kills someone we put them in jail...we have revoked their liberty, have we not?

So (I'm really just trying to learn here) what exactly are rights as opposed to priveleges?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Hey all you constitution scholars (hereafter known as CS): I have a question regarding what is being said here.

Radar, you say that a right cannot be regulated or revoked, while a privelege can be. However, what about "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? What I mean is don't CS people say those are human rights? Now, when somone kills someone we put them in jail...we have revoked their liberty, have we not?

So (I'm really just trying to learn here) what exactly are rights as opposed to priveleges?

A right may not be regulated or revoked, but a privilege can be. When someone performs an act that violates the person, property, or rights of others it is a crime and not otherwise. If you violate someone's rights by killing them you have not taken away their right to live, you've merely violated that right. When you do this, you have FORFEITED your right to liberty until such time as you have been punished accordingly whether that punishment is house arrest, imprisonment, or death. By locking someone up for a genuine crime, you are not violating or infringing on their rights.


Here are a few videos explaining the difference between rights and privileges.

[TheMercenary]

Senate Vote Is Good News For Gun Rights
-- GOA thanks activists for sending thousands of e-mails to the Senate prior to vote

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Wednesday, July 30, 2008


Gun owners won an important vote in the U.S. Senate this week, when more than three dozen senators stood with Republican Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma in his battle against Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada.

Reid fell eight votes short on Monday of stopping Coburn, who has been using parliamentary maneuvers to keep anti-gun legislation (and pork) from coming to the Senate floor for votes.

Sen. Coburn has placed a "hold" on more than 80 bills since January of last year -- including the bill which recently extended the National Parks gun ban to the Washington-Rochambeau trail.

Under the rules, one senator may block the progress of an objectionable bill by issuing a "hold" -- a maneuver which prevents a bill from speedily moving through the legislative process.

The frustrated dictator of the Senate (a.k.a. Reid) combined 36 of the bills which have come under Coburn's ire into a big omnibus bill and added all kinds of pork to entice senators into supporting the measure. Nevertheless, Reid still fell eight votes short of what was needed to defeat Coburn's holds.

GOA wants to thank all of you who took the time during the last week to urge your senators to stand with Coburn!

VETERANS DISARMAMENT UPDATE

In other Senate news, Richard Burr's bill to repeal large parts of the Veterans Disarmament Act is gaining steam. The Republican senator from North Carolina introduced the Veterans Protection Act (S. 3167) after President Bush signed a gun ban into law this year -- a law which, among other things, disarms military veterans who have been diagnosed with PTSD.
The Burr bill, which now has 18 cosponsors, would protect the rights of military veterans and make it more difficult for the Veterans Affairs to deny them their Second Amendment rights.

GOA members should have received their latest newsletter by now. This issue contains a key update on the Veterans Protection Act in the House (introduced by Rep. Virgil Goode) and answers frequently asked questions by gun owners such as: what should I do when I'm denied by the Brady Check and can I run a NICS check on myself?

If you're not receiving the GOA newsletter, please go to http://www.gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm to get your members-only subscription today!

ACTION:

1. Continue asking your two senators to stand with Sen. Coburn in defying the strong-arm tactics of Majority Leader Reid. Further to that, urge them to cosponsor Coburn's bill (S. 2807) repealing the gun ban in the National Parks. You can visit the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators the pre-written e-mail message below.

2. Make sure you check out the latest GOA newsletter and mail the enclosed postcards in support of the Veterans Protection Act if you have not already done so. Thank you!

[Shawnee123]

I watched bits of the video but just don't have that kind of time because my access is at work and I'm a popper. But I thank you for your response.

I think what you're saying, though, is that your rights cannot be taken away from you but you can forfeit them.

So, a person in prison has forfeited their right to liberty. They've done something that society has deemed worthy of the loss of that right.

But doesn't the same thing happen with privileges? Driving a car is a privilege...screw it up and you lose that privilege. So what is the difference between losing a right and losing a privilege?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I watched bits of the video but just don't have that kind of time because my access is at work and I'm a popper. But I thank you for your response.

I think what you're saying, though, is that your rights cannot be taken away from you but you can forfeit them.

So, a person in prison has forfeited their right to liberty. They've done something that society has deemed worthy of the loss of that right.

But doesn't the same thing happen with privileges? Driving a car is a privilege...screw it up and you lose that privilege. So what is the difference between losing a right and losing a privilege?

I would never claim to be an expert on the matter, but privileges are earned. You earn the privilege to drive a car by virtue of age, testing, and it is isssued at a state level. Hence, the state may remove it.

[Griff]

Careful Shawnee you're sounding like a CS.

The part that Radar fails to acknowlege is that those rights which he, I, and the founders agree to be critical are seen by the courts and people of the US as negotiable if not immoral. Right now competing ideologies rule the field. I was talking to a teenager about video surveilance a while back. He found nothing worrisome in being on camera everywhere outside his front door (not that he respects property rights), of course his Dad is a public school social studies teacher... To be lead off-track by discussions of 18th century philosophy is to do the work of the Statists, writing off libertarians as the people who would put nukes in our basements and the poor in the streets. It is tempting to try to explain everything with one perfect system, but it isn't practical.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

It is tempting to try to explain everything with one perfect system, but it isn't practical.

I can't agree more.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Griff

Careful Shawnee you're sounding like a CS.

~snip~

Hmmph. May large earthworms invade your land while you're not looking.

I like the points here...I guess what I'm getting at is that Radar believes there is an obvious distinction, and I'm trying to see that viewpoint from someone who sees it in black and white.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Hmmph. May large earthworms invade your land while you're not looking.

I forgot the after my statement. Earthworms?

Good luck getting a straight answer.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I watched bits of the video but just don't have that kind of time because my access is at work and I'm a popper. But I thank you for your response.

I think what you're saying, though, is that your rights cannot be taken away from you but you can forfeit them.

So, a person in prison has forfeited their right to liberty. They've done something that society has deemed worthy of the loss of that right.

But doesn't the same thing happen with privileges? Driving a car is a privilege...screw it up and you lose that privilege. So what is the difference between losing a right and losing a privilege?

Actually, driving is a right. The states lie and claim it to be a privilege, but this isn't the case. I bought the car. It's mine to do with as I please. I paid for the road. It too is my property. It's common property of mine, and every other person in the state. We can agree on rules for the road, but it's not a privilege that can be revoked.


If you want to walk across your yard, you don't require permission. You can do it all you want and no other person or group of people has any legitimate authority to stop you. If someone violates your rights, you still have those rights.

If you want to walk across MY yard, I may grant you that privilege. If you piss me off, I can revoke that privilege and I have not violated your rights. You would have no legitimate complaint if I revoked permission to allow you to walk across my yard.

[Shawnee123]

But they can remove rights, too, apparently.

[Shawnee123]

Now you see!

I don't know the earthworms thing. Was going for some really lame "may something do something to your something" and earthworms popped into my head. :shrug:

[xoxoxoBruce]

Privileges may be legally revoked. Rights may only be denied, illegally and immorally.

[classicman]

What if I want to walk across my yard, which is right next to your yard, with a shotgun pointed at you - is that ok too?

[Radar]

You don't have the right to harm or endanger others unless it is in our own defense from them. Walking back and forth across my yard poses no threat to you, so pointing a gun at me is not a defensive action. It's an offensive one.