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Old 08-20-2009, 06:54 PM   #1
TheMercenary
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No elements of the bill have passed.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:51 PM   #2
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No elements of the bill have passed.
So?
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:28 PM   #3
TheMercenary
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PWP

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Is the manic rushed appraoch to "reforming healthcare" motivated by something else? Is the unreported information concealed by media groupies who appear to be little more than paid democrat supporters pertinent to tax payers? consider the following:

David Axelrod, who is fond of calling the town hall protestors astroturf mobs, appears to have a few conflict of interests with the health care reform proposals being put forward by his boss, President Obama.

Axelrod headed up AKPD Message and Media - a firm that the Obama presidential campaign paid more than $340 million to place ads for the candidate. He resigned on December 31 to join the administration, and the firm is now run by his son.

The problem is, he is still owed money by the firm. And wouldn't you like to know where that money is coming from?

How about from a coalition of businesses calling themselves "Healthy Economy Now (HEN)" connected to the health care debate?

AXELROD--OBAMA--AKPD--HEN--PHARMA

"Coalitions of interest groups running at least $24 million in pro-overhaul ads hired GMMB, which worked for Obama's 2008 campaign and whose partners include a top Obama campaign strategist. They also hired AKPD Message and Media, which was founded by David Axelrod"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2009/08/19/

ALSO THIS:

HEN's other members, according to its Web site, are the AARP, the biggest advocacy organization for retirees; the Advanced Medical Technology Association; the Business Roundtable; Families USA; the Service Employees International Union, all based in Washington, and the American Medical Association based in Chicago. PhRMA represents 28 drugmakers, including New York-based Pfizer Inc. and London-based GLAXO SMITH KLINE PLC.

AND

Aug. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Two firms that received $343.3 million to handle advertising for Barack Obama’s White House run last year have profited from his top priority as president by taking on his push for health-care overhaul.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aV3dLt6wmZH4

So despite the placations about health care costs to Americans or insuring the uninsured maybe the real motivator is simply MONEY?
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:57 AM   #4
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So you have no idea what the final product will be. And from the looks of it the Dems are continuing to make back door deals and the insurance companies will come out on top making a huge profit and decisions about your health care based on income.
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Old 08-21-2009, 10:37 AM   #5
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So you have no idea what the final product will be.
OK...
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And from the looks of it the Dems are continuing to make back door deals and the insurance companies will come out on top making a huge profit and decisions about your health care based on income.
...but you do?

The elimination of preexisting conditions is in all versions of the bill. If we're talking about what will be enacted, I'll go for that over "from the looks of it".
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Old 08-21-2009, 10:55 AM   #6
TheMercenary
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OK... ...but you do?

The elimination of preexisting conditions is in all versions of the bill. If we're talking about what will be enacted, I'll go for that over "from the looks of it".
No. I said I know they are making deals to maintain their profit margin.
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:52 PM   #7
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No. I said I know they are making deals to maintain their profit margin.
About that... while watching an interview the other night it was revealed that the insurance industry is in negotiations now to be able to make 35 cents on every dollar people spend on their policies. Casinos only get to keep 25 cents on the dollar, and in NJ they apparently only keep 17 cents. That means premiums will be going up again for everyone, and so will the copays. This is according to Wendell Potter, an ex-VP of Cigna. He was on Countdown, and he has appeared on Rachel Maddow's show several times to talk about how corrupt the system is. You can watch the interview here... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#32484421

And over the past 5 years or so their profits have gone up 1000% while patients costs have risen over 300%. There is something wrong with that picture. (I don't remember where I got those numbers but I believe it may have been Matt Tiabbi on Morning Joe.)
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:00 PM   #8
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Did anyone see Jon's discussion with Betsy McCaughey on the new heathcare bill last week on The Daily Show? The extended discussion is available at thedailyshow.com.

Sorry if this was mentioned already. I don't have time to look thru all 10 pages of this thread.

Last edited by Datalyss; 08-24-2009 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:53 PM   #9
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Hey sugarpop - a study with the group "Physicians for a National Health Program" and their conclusions might not be the most UN-biased if you know what I mean.
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Last edited by classicman; 08-24-2009 at 08:58 PM. Reason: correcting sentence
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Old 08-24-2009, 08:55 PM   #10
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Physicians should be uniquely qualified to talk about it, don't you think? Regardless of whether they want a national health program or not... And I agree, they are probably not biased... :p
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Old 08-26-2009, 07:54 PM   #11
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:31 PM   #12
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The power of a single cartoon ... awesome.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:13 PM   #13
classicman
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Democratic Health Care Bill Divulges IRS Tax Data
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Section 431(a) of the bill says that the IRS must divulge taxpayer identity information, including the filing status, the modified adjusted gross income, the number of dependents, and "other information as is prescribed by" regulation. That information will be provided to the new Health Choices Commissioner and state health programs and used to determine who qualifies for "affordability credits."

Section 245(b)(2)(A) says the IRS must divulge tax return details -- there's no specified limit on what's available or unavailable -- to the Health Choices Commissioner. The purpose, again, is to verify "affordability credits."

Over at the Institute for Policy Innovation (a free-market think tank and presumably no fan of Obamacare), Tom Giovanetti argues that: "How many thousands of federal employees will have access to your records? The privacy of your health records will be only as good as the most nosy, most dishonest and most malcontented federal employee.... So say good-bye to privacy from the federal government. It was fun while it lasted for 233 years."

I'm not as certain as Giovanetti that this represents privacy's Armageddon. (Though I do wonder where the usual suspects like the Electronic Privacy Information Center are. Presumably inserting limits on information that can be disclosed -- and adding strict penalties on misuse of the information kept on file about hundreds of millions of Americans -- is at least as important as fretting about Facebook's privacy policy in Canada.)

A better candidate for a future privacy crisis is the so-called stimulus bill enacted with limited debate early this year. It mandated the "utilization of an electronic health record for each person in the United States by 2014," but included only limited privacy protections.

It's true that if the legislative branch chooses to create "affordability credits," it probably makes sense to ensure they're not abused. The goal of curbing fraud runs up against the goal of preserving individual privacy.

If we're going to have such significant additional government intrusion into our health care system, we will have to draw the privacy line somewhere. Maybe the House Democrats' current bill gets it right. Maybe it doesn't. But this vignette should be reason to be skeptical of claims that a massive and complex bill must be enacted as rapidly as its backers would have you believe.

Update August 27 11 a.m: Marc Rotenberg of the Electronic Privacy Information Center says in e-mail: "We would oppose section 431(a) of the bill because it violates the intent of the Privacy Act which generally requires agencies to obtain information directly from individuals and not from other agencies." EPIC still hasn't updated their Web site to reflect this sentiment, but it's good to know that other folks have concerns too.
Good or bad, but certainly not indifferent.
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Old 08-29-2009, 05:39 PM   #14
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Seems to me it could be written so the IRS has to divulge that information for anyone requesting "affordability credits".
Leave up to the individual to decide whether they want the credits or privacy.

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Old 09-15-2009, 08:40 PM   #15
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Seems to me it could be written so the IRS has to divulge that information for anyone requesting "affordability credits".
Leave up to the individual to decide whether they want the credits or privacy.

OMG! That was awesome!

Representive Anthony Weiner discussed health care reform with Bill Maher on Sept. 11 on Real Time. It was awesome. He wants a single payer system though, and he explained that if we went to single payer, the thing would pay for itself through all the money saved from premiums and profits, and of course those high salaries costs hundreds of millions of dollars. I honestly don't know why democrats didn't argue for that. As Bill Moyers said recently, "I think...too many Democrats have had their spines surgically removed."
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