English only - Page 4

Aliantha · 10-03-2007, 05:46 PM

Seriously, if you go anywhere in Europe, you'll find most people speak at least two languages, sometimes more.

People in western, EFL cultures are really just a bit colonial in their outlook to other languages.

I really don't see why there is such a problem embracing new/alternative languages.

Cloud · 10-03-2007, 05:51 PM

but the Founding Fathers meant us to be pure!

[sarcasm]

Aliantha · 10-03-2007, 05:53 PM

ahuh...well, I'd say the US is just as much a mongrel dog as anywhere else in the western world.

I guess you've all let your daddies down.

SamIam · 10-03-2007, 07:06 PM

I live right on the boundary of the Navajo Nation or the Rez as some folks call it. There are oodles of people speaking Navajo around here, and everyone seems to survive the experience. I disagree with Bruce's scenario of the Spanish speaking dog doing its number on an English speaking yard. Being polite can work wonders with the language barrier. For example, I was in the local Walmart this morning, and got distracted trying to figure out what steering fluid I needed to buy for my car. There I was, lost in rapt contemplation of the automotive products, inadvertantly blocking the aisle with my cart. An ancient Navajo lady brought me back to the world when she gently tapped my cart, and said, "You move, please," followed by something in Navajo. I quickly moved aside for her and apologized in English. She nodded, smiled, and I don't beleive they're planning on any war councils in Shiprock tonight.

Live and let live. There's lots worse things than having part of our population speak Spanish. Its a beautiful language, and I love the poetry of Pablo Naruda in the original Spanish. I think if the US went bi-lingual it would add more to our culture than detract from it.

DanaC · 10-03-2007, 07:14 PM

Most areas of the UK are at the very least bi-lingual in terms of communication between the system and citizens. The signs are usually done with two or three translations, government forms are available usually in at least 5 or 6 languages, someone being interviewed by a local government office can request interpreters for several languages.

As far as I can tell it makes precious little difference to my life. I go to the Council tax office and wait in line to speak to an assistant, does it really matter that the sign on the wall, warning against aggressive behaviour to staff, has the same warning written in four languages, one after another? Does it really matter that when I grab a form off the counter there's a pile of forms in Urdu next to the pile of english forms? Or that on the back of the form I've picked up is an address I could write to to acquire that same form in one of 6 different languages, or braille?

We have several settled immigrant communities and their children are usually bi-lingual by the time they start school. BY the time they leave they will usually have done at least a few years in French and possibly another language on top. We're not great on languages compared to most euro nations. The indigenous population are far less likely to be bi-lingual than the immigrant population.

Aliantha · 10-03-2007, 07:17 PM

In these modern times of the internet and computers, there's really no argument for having to print extra forms in different languages anyway. If the forms are stored on a hard drive, you simply print out the language that suits you and ignore the rest.

DanaC · 10-03-2007, 07:22 PM

I suspect that's why some of the less common languages are available on request, rather than as standard. Usually the two or three languages that are prevalent in an area are the ones you'll routinely find in public offices. Also, you have to take into account, thata lot of official forms have to be printed, they can't be run off as a download.

In Wales of course, all signs are in English and Welsh.

jinx · 10-03-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Usually the two or three languages that are prevalent in an area are the ones you'll routinely find in public offices.

Quote:

California, on one hand, agreed to allow the publication of state documents in other languages to represent minority groups and immigrant communities. Languages, such as Spanish, Chinese, Korean, Tagalog (Filipino/Pilipino), Persian, Russian, Vietnamese and Thai appear in official state documents, and the Department of Motor Vehicles publishes in 47 languages.

Quote:

In 2000, the census bureau printed the standard census questionnaires in six languages: English, Spanish, Korean, Chinese (in traditional characters), Vietnamese, and Tagalog. The English-only movement seeks to establish English as the only official language of the entire nation.

Quote:

On May 19, 2006, the United States Senate voted to make English the national language of the United States. According to the bill, written by Sen. James M. Inhofe (R-Okla.), the federal government will no longer provide multilingual communications and services, except for those already guaranteed by law. Shortly after the approval of the Inhofe amendment, the Senate voted for another bill by Sen. Ken Salazar (D-Colo.), according to which English is the "common unifying language of the United States", but mandated that nothing in that declaration "shall diminish or expand any existing rights" regarding multilingual services. Neither of the bills were signed into law.

Which mulit-language services are "already protected by law", which ones aren't included in that, that the govt. will no longer be providing? If it doesn't change (diminish or expand) anything, what's the point? What does "English Only" or "English First" mean?

HungLikeJesus · 10-03-2007, 07:48 PM

Another benefit to being bi-lingual: it doubles your chance for a date on Saturday night.

DanaC · 10-03-2007, 07:56 PM

Yeah....ready for a bit of the old Lingua Franca...woof!

DanaC · 10-03-2007, 07:59 PM

I have no idea.

orthodoc · 10-04-2007, 01:13 PM

I agree, it's useful to be bilingual - if you're in a place that uses both languages. I worked summers as a bilingual secretary (temp) in Ottawa to put myself through college (back when it was possible to do that with a good summer job). At the time, I was pretty fluent in French; now I'm very rusty. My husband spoke only Ukrainian until he went to school. Years later he retains only a smattering of it because he hasn't used it.

In Toronto, Oakville, and Hamilton, Ontario (the most populous area of the province) you'll hear almost any language you can think of ... except French. Having signs and services in French in that area isn't the most logical thing. The law is based on ideology rather than reality.

Cloud · 10-04-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

"English is the result of Norman men-at-arms attempting to pick up Saxon barmaids and is no more legitimate than any of the other results."
- H. Beam Piper

Long live Little Fuzzy!

dar512 · 10-05-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

Long live Little Fuzzy!

A Little Fuzzy Fan! I knew I liked you!

Aliantha · 10-05-2007, 12:45 AM

I think the correct spelling is kowtow and it's a Chinese word.

Here's a definition:

Kowtow, from the Chinese term Kòu tóu (Cantonese: Kau tàuh) (叩頭 traditional, 叩头 simplified), is the act of deep respect shown by kneeling and bowing so low as to touch the head to the ground. While the phrase Kē tóu (磕頭) is often used in lieu of the former in modern Chinese, the meaning is somewhat altered: kòu originally meant "knock with reverence", whereas kè has the general meaning of "touch upon (a surface)".

So like most other languages that come into contact with western english speaking nations, the true meaning of the word has been lost by people not being open minded enough to realize that bowing is not necessarily showing your inferiority to another, but rather it can and should usually be a way of showing your respect.

I guess that means no heiffers on skateboards. lol

10-03-2007, 05:46 PM	#1
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Seriously, if you go anywhere in Europe, you'll find most people speak at least two languages, sometimes more. People in western, EFL cultures are really just a bit colonial in their outlook to other languages. I really don't see why there is such a problem embracing new/alternative languages. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-03-2007, 05:51 PM	#2
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	but the Founding Fathers meant us to be pure! [sarcasm] __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

10-03-2007, 05:53 PM	#3
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	ahuh...well, I'd say the US is just as much a mongrel dog as anywhere else in the western world. I guess you've all let your daddies down. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-03-2007, 07:06 PM	#4
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	I live right on the boundary of the Navajo Nation or the Rez as some folks call it. There are oodles of people speaking Navajo around here, and everyone seems to survive the experience. I disagree with Bruce's scenario of the Spanish speaking dog doing its number on an English speaking yard. Being polite can work wonders with the language barrier. For example, I was in the local Walmart this morning, and got distracted trying to figure out what steering fluid I needed to buy for my car. There I was, lost in rapt contemplation of the automotive products, inadvertantly blocking the aisle with my cart. An ancient Navajo lady brought me back to the world when she gently tapped my cart, and said, "You move, please," followed by something in Navajo. I quickly moved aside for her and apologized in English. She nodded, smiled, and I don't beleive they're planning on any war councils in Shiprock tonight. Live and let live. There's lots worse things than having part of our population speak Spanish. Its a beautiful language, and I love the poetry of Pablo Naruda in the original Spanish. I think if the US went bi-lingual it would add more to our culture than detract from it. Last edited by SamIam; 10-03-2007 at 07:23 PM.

10-03-2007, 07:17 PM	#6
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	In these modern times of the internet and computers, there's really no argument for having to print extra forms in different languages anyway. If the forms are stored on a hard drive, you simply print out the language that suits you and ignore the rest. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-03-2007, 07:14 PM	#5
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Most areas of the UK are at the very least bi-lingual in terms of communication between the system and citizens. The signs are usually done with two or three translations, government forms are available usually in at least 5 or 6 languages, someone being interviewed by a local government office can request interpreters for several languages. As far as I can tell it makes precious little difference to my life. I go to the Council tax office and wait in line to speak to an assistant, does it really matter that the sign on the wall, warning against aggressive behaviour to staff, has the same warning written in four languages, one after another? Does it really matter that when I grab a form off the counter there's a pile of forms in Urdu next to the pile of english forms? Or that on the back of the form I've picked up is an address I could write to to acquire that same form in one of 6 different languages, or braille? We have several settled immigrant communities and their children are usually bi-lingual by the time they start school. BY the time they leave they will usually have done at least a few years in French and possibly another language on top. We're not great on languages compared to most euro nations. The indigenous population are far less likely to be bi-lingual than the immigrant population.

10-03-2007, 07:22 PM	#7
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I suspect that's why some of the less common languages are available on request, rather than as standard. Usually the two or three languages that are prevalent in an area are the ones you'll routinely find in public offices. Also, you have to take into account, thata lot of official forms have to be printed, they can't be run off as a download. In Wales of course, all signs are in English and Welsh.

10-03-2007, 07:48 PM	#9
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	Another benefit to being bi-lingual: it doubles your chance for a date on Saturday night. __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

10-03-2007, 07:56 PM	#10
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Yeah....ready for a bit of the old Lingua Franca...woof!

10-03-2007, 07:59 PM	#11
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I have no idea.

10-04-2007, 01:13 PM	#12
orthodoc Not Suspicious, Merely Canadian Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,774	I agree, it's useful to be bilingual - if you're in a place that uses both languages. I worked summers as a bilingual secretary (temp) in Ottawa to put myself through college (back when it was possible to do that with a good summer job). At the time, I was pretty fluent in French; now I'm very rusty. My husband spoke only Ukrainian until he went to school. Years later he retains only a smattering of it because he hasn't used it. In Toronto, Oakville, and Hamilton, Ontario (the most populous area of the province) you'll hear almost any language you can think of ... except French. Having signs and services in French in that area isn't the most logical thing. The law is based on ideology rather than reality. __________________ The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Ghandi

10-05-2007, 12:45 AM	#15
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I think the correct spelling is kowtow and it's a Chinese word. Here's a definition: Kowtow, from the Chinese term Kòu tóu (Cantonese: Kau tàuh) (叩頭 traditional, 叩头 simplified), is the act of deep respect shown by kneeling and bowing so low as to touch the head to the ground. While the phrase Kē tóu (磕頭) is often used in lieu of the former in modern Chinese, the meaning is somewhat altered: kòu originally meant "knock with reverence", whereas kè has the general meaning of "touch upon (a surface)". So like most other languages that come into contact with western english speaking nations, the true meaning of the word has been lost by people not being open minded enough to realize that bowing is not necessarily showing your inferiority to another, but rather it can and should usually be a way of showing your respect. I guess that means no heiffers on skateboards. lol __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

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