09-12-2007, 05:15 PM | #31 |
changed his status to single
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I don't believe I'm all that special, so I don't believe I'm the only person who tries to take care of the people around me. All that I'm aware of falls under what I consider my responsibility. So if I do that, and you take care of those you can help around you, and bruce helps those around him, and UT... see where I'm going here?
I'm not saying we should trash the safety net programs, I'm just saying that we don't need a government program to be big brother for every damn thing.
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09-12-2007, 05:24 PM | #32 |
Radical Centrist
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The people closest to the problem are the best to help because they know precisely what sort of help is needed and what sort is productive.
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09-12-2007, 05:27 PM | #33 | |
We have to go back, Kate!
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Location: Yorkshire
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Quote:
We used to have a society in Britain, where help was something individuals offered and individuals sought. Not enough individuals offered and far too many had to seek. The protections our society has were hard fought for by people who had been cut out of the big cake and left eating scraps. Poverty, unemployment, health inequalities, social exclusion. These things are too big to be left to the vagaries of individuals' good will. The reason so many people in my country fought to achieve those safety nets is that the system of gentle benevolence was really a tacit acceptance of inequality and brutal exploitation. |
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09-12-2007, 05:52 PM | #34 | |
Makes some feel uncomfortable
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"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce |
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09-12-2007, 07:28 PM | #35 |
The future is unwritten
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Maybe because they see the facilities in Chester, Camden and Philly, going to hell in a handbasket. Neglected, abandoned to junkies and thugs, broken glass and trash. If the people the facilities are for, won't take care of them, how can you convince people to provide more facilities?
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
09-12-2007, 07:34 PM | #36 |
Franklin Pierce
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I think welfare states are just a natural progression in sociological advancement. Once a decent standard of living is established in the middle class, a push towards a welfare state seems almost inevitable except by major control by state.
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09-12-2007, 07:51 PM | #37 | |
changed his status to single
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In my area, I'm surrounded by a lot of mexicans. Yep, I help the ones I can. Sometimes I even leave some of the steak around the bone before I throw it at them from the window of my speeding SUV on my way back to my lilly white neighborhood. The point is help those you see around you and do what you can.
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Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin |
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09-12-2007, 11:02 PM | #38 | |
Bioengineer and aspiring lawer
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09-13-2007, 03:11 AM | #39 | |
We have to go back, Kate!
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Quote:
The fact that a small class of people had sole access to finance, to the vote, to a decent education, to a childhood without working in dangerous conditions, does not mean that they did more or planned better. The system at the time did not allow for social mobility. Every single protection that the working classes ever gained was fought for and fought for hard. Laws governing safety at work? Fought for against the wishes of the employer-class. A fair day's pay for a fair day's work? Fought for against the wishes of the employer-class. Legislation against children working? Fought for against the wishes of the employer-class. Laws governing minimum safety and hygiene standards in housing? Fought for against the wishes of the employer and landlord-class. The right to unionise? Fought for against the wishes of the employer-class and the political elite. Old age pension? Fought for, and fought for fucking hard by a class of people who were used to working until they dropped. I find it interesting that you relate most strongly to that employer class. You relate to the minority who controlled the entire economy rather than the majority who worked in it. Me? I'm under no such illusion. I am a workingclass woman from Salford, if I'd have been born 150 years earlier, I would have lived in a slum, most likely with 6 people to a bedroom. I would have been working by the time I was 7 in a dangerous job with a very high risk of injury and mutilation. At best I may have been 'in service' from the age of 10, working for a wealthy family. Me and my entire family would have worked 12 hours a day for just enough to eat and with no hope of ever changing and not one of us would have had the right to vote. Meanwhile those who owned the mills and factories would have experienced vast wealth and controlled the political system. I am able to live the life I live now, with the opportunities I have now and the protections that prevent my exploitation because my forefathers (and mothers) fought for them. I would also posit that you are able to live the life you live and have the protections you have, because your forefathers fought for them. Last edited by DanaC; 09-13-2007 at 03:32 AM. |
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09-13-2007, 07:55 AM | #40 | ||||||
Makes some feel uncomfortable
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Read Luke 15, 11-32 Quote:
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"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce |
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09-13-2007, 08:02 AM | #41 | |
Makes some feel uncomfortable
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Quote:
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"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce |
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09-13-2007, 10:59 AM | #42 | |
~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~
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Perhaps those old movies and shows that seem lame to young folk now will become social a social commentary one day. The'll be studied in college just to get a glimpse of social norms that are not in practice any longer? good thoughts UT. |
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09-13-2007, 11:17 AM | #43 |
“Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo”
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The problem is not in recognition that people need help, the problem is in what differing groups propose as the solution. Those with hard earned wealth are against redistribution of their wealth to fix social problems which are often a bottomless pit of revolving door handouts. Those who are Uber wealthly often give thousands to this charity or that charity and often can make a difference in peoples lives, some do, some don't. Those who are in the middle who don't have much to give want those who have lots to give it up to cause "XYZ" because they (in the middle) think people with money should take care of those without. And so the rub continues.
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Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012! |
09-13-2007, 11:30 AM | #44 | |
Looking forward to open mic night.
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Quote:
Monday I went for my usual cup of coffee and saw from a distance that there was an irregular person sitting in my usual area. Everyone else that usually hangs out in that area went somewhere else to sit, because that person- you could tell from a distance- was indigent, looked like he was having a hard time, and might cast a negative spell on their morning. I was the only person to sit in my usual spot near this person, and the look in his eyes said he was incredibly sad and defeated.Like he was dying. Not only did no one go out of their way for someone so down-trodden. They refused to be anywhere near him as some sort of social darwinism,denial, or discrimination. I not knowing what do again in the face of someone so helpless, gave him some money hoping that at least an act of kindness would cast some light.He had shoes on like had just gotten out of a hospital. It's true- when people are really suffering in everyone's face- unless they are of a proper status- they are not only not taken care of- they are avoided. Like being 10 feet from it might hurt them......Wouldn't even get close enough to shake a stick at. The amount of evasion that I run into is really worse than I'd usually admit.
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09-13-2007, 11:36 AM | #45 |
changed his status to single
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but someone did help him. You.
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