Men Abortion and Choice

[Ibby]

Dude, rkzenrage, a man has NO, repeat NO right or legal authority to say what a woman does with HER, repeat HER body and things inside it. That doesn't mean you can't ask her to keep it, can't beg and plead and even demand... but she absolutely does NOT have to listen to you.

What was the point of that statement of the obvious?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ibram

Dude, rkzenrage, a man has NO, repeat NO right or legal authority to say what a woman does with HER, repeat HER body and things inside it. That doesn't mean you can't ask her to keep it, can't beg and plead and even demand... but she absolutely does NOT have to listen to you.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

What was the point of that statement of the obvious?

That is the whole point of this entire thread. The law would force the woman to get permission from the man.

[DanaC]

I simply stated if a man wanted to take full custody of the child he should be able to do so.

Of course he should, if she is willing to carry it to term for him.

The other side of your rant is that you are saying it is ok for you to kill a man's child without his consent.

Okay. My honest opinion here rk, and I have a feeling this isn't likely to be a popular one: up until that baby leaves the mothers body, it is not a baby it is a feotus. A feotus is, to me, a potential baby. When it is born it is a baby in the world, experiencing life and is no longer existing within its mother's body. At that point the baby has its own, human rights, separate from the mother. At that point, it is as much his child as hers.

Prior to that...if it exists inside my body, if it is a part of me, it is mine.

Originally Posted by DanaC

Of course he should, if she is willing to carry it to term for him.

Okay. My honest opinion here rk, and I have a feeling this isn't likely to be a popular one: up until that baby leaves the mothers body, it is not a baby it is a feotus. A feotus is, to me, a potential baby. When it is born it is a baby in the world, experiencing life and is no longer existing within its mother's body. At that point the baby has its own, human rights, separate from the mother. At that point, it is as much his child as hers.

Prior to that...if it exists inside my body, if it is a part of me, it is mine.

I strongly disagree.

[DanaC]

That doesn't mean you can't ask her to keep it, can't beg and plead and even demand... but she absolutely does NOT have to listen to you.

Absolutely. I would imagine many women seeking abortions take into account their man's feelings on it when they're making their decision. It's not an easy thing to have to decide.

[DanaC]

*nods* I know you do. I think this is not one of those issues you and I are going to find common ground on :P

Originally Posted by DanaC

*nods* I know you do. I think this is not one of those issues you and I are going to find common ground on :P

I know, just a discussion and not aimed at anyone in particular.

[Cicero]

If you spit in my coke can it's still not your coke. We can share it- but it's really up to me whether I decide to dump it out or not.

[DanaC]

Okay, rk, answer me a question. At what point in the conception/pregnancy process does the feotus/baby's human rights outweigh the woman/mother's ?

IMO, as soon as we know, and not outweigh, equal.
But, politically I do not feel I have a right to outlaw abortion up to the second trimester, unless the father wants full custody.

[DanaC]

There is no equal if a woman who doesn't want to have a baby is forced to do so. That means the baby's right to be born has been tested against, and outweighed the woman's right not to give birth.

You keep using the word "force" attached to something she decided to do.
Does not work.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

You keep using the word "force" attached to something she decided to do.
Does not work.

Deciding to have sex is not the same as deciding to have a child. Duh. That is sooo 100 years ago...
If you're trying to suggest that women should only have sex when they are hoping/willing to get pregnant then I offer a hearty Fuck You.

Originally Posted by jinx

Deciding to have sex is not the same as deciding to have a child. Duh. That is sooo 100 years ago...
If you're trying to suggest that women should only have sex when they are hoping/willing to get pregnant then I offer a hearty Fuck You.

Thanks for your outstanding contribution to the wisdom and dialog of the thread. Especially since you can't read.