A speck of optimism - Page 2

tw · 03-21-2007, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The rate of killings of US troops in Iraq has been on the decline, down by ...

Which was also reported after Tet. Meanwhile that is exactly how insurgencies work. Need we return to Fajullah? The insurgency simply moved to other towns - leaving only enough in Fajullah to interest the Marines.

But then that is also what MacAurthur over 50 years ago and Sze Tze over 2500 years ago both noted. That is how Americans fought the Revolutionary War. Once we learn how smart commanders operate, well, those numbers only imply the insurgents are smart - or getting smarter. Welcome to Vietnam when these same 'body count' numbers proved America was winning the war.

Hippikos · 03-21-2007, 08:20 AM

Just a day in the life of Iraq; Tuesday March 20th: 143 Iraqis, 5 GIs Killed; 124 Iraqis Wounded.

In Baghdad, a car bomb near a mosque in the Ubaidi area killed one and injured three more. Three people were killed and seven injured during a car bomb attack near a Karrada area bridge. A separate car bomb near a police station killed seven and wounded 20 more. Four were injured when a bomb went of in a mini-bus traveling through eastern Baghdad. Mortars fell in the Abu Dsheer neighborhood where they killed seven and wounded 20 others. Another mortar wounded a man in Zaafaraniya. One person was killed and six others wounded during a bomb in the al-Mashan trade center. A suicide car bomber drove into a checkpoint in western Baghdad where he killed one soldier and wounded another. During a U.S-led raid in Hurriya, three gunmen were killed. Two police officers were injured during a drive-by shooting in the Mahdiya area. Captain Hussein Abdulilah was gunned down in the Mansour district. Also, 32 bodies were recovered mostly in western neighborhoods.

The body of a man was discovered in Fallujah.

A car bomb west of Fallujah in Halabsa left at least 10 dead and seven injured.

Just north of Baghdad on Monday, mortars injured five people while south of Baghdad mortars wounded four more.

A body was found in Kirkuk; the victim had been stabbed and tortured.

A policeman was gunned down on a main road near Kirkuk. Last night, nine civilians were injured during a car bomb blast near a girls school.

Also, the Iraqi army reported killing three gunmen in different locations.

Gunmen killed a man and wounded another in the town of al-Zab.

A woman and child were injured during a mortar attack in Iskandariya.

Two policemen were killed when a bomb exploded near their vehicle in Haditha.

In Mosul, clashes erupted between U.S. troops and gunmen.

A motorcycle bomb injured no one when it blew up in Madaen.

Ten civilians were injured during a drive-by shooting in Bani Saad.

During clashes in Tikrit, four gunmen and one civilian were killed, while four others were injured.

A previously unreported death occured during an attack in Samarra last night.

Several members of the the Shirqat police force were injured during a roadside bomb blast.

The bodies of two brothers were recovered in al-Touz.

Two truck drivers were kidnapped near Akreesh.

For the rest relatively quiet...

Undertoad · 03-21-2007, 08:25 AM

If that's a bad day, once again the Lancet numbers look ridiculous.

Hippikos · 03-22-2007, 06:27 AM

Nah, just a quiet day in the Baghdad park...

tw · 03-22-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hippikos

Nah, just a quiet day in the Baghdad park...

Not exactly. First some underlying facts. Maliki's government is (has been) a US puppet government. It cannot defend itself, does not have popular support, and would fall immediately if Americans left. Smart Americans are suggesting after 4 years, we should have left years ago. And so Maliki, et al have been doing something for the past few months that otherwise would never happen.

Maliki, et al has been negotiating with various insurgent leaders - secretly. Suddenly they realize that either they concede to reality or hang with Saddam. Sistani has (apparently) ordered Shia insurgent groups to rein in their war on Sunnis (and among themselves). Sadr, et al apparently have complied where control exists over their people.

What we have been seeing are the 'uncontrolled' still fighting - and pulling back.

What are details? We have not a clue. All this has been ongoing for months now - Americans having been cut out of the process. A process created only because Americans have finally gotten serious about leaving what cannot be won. Iraqis have two choices. Either massacre each other by expanding the civil war, or negotiating. That means even Maliki's hard line has softened since the Iraqi army and police are all but toothless. Maliki is only there because of 140,000 Americans. Suddenly reality has struck him - and many other major insurgent groups.

Well not all will comply. Watch what happens. If we did as the Iraq Study Group recommends, then the Iraqis may just decided to go the way of Lebanon - if we get lucky. That can only happen if we leave them to 'sink or swim' - not completely leave but move out as the ISG recommended.

A major and ongoing event from months ago may have just leaked out this week. Time to watch major players - especially Sistani.

tw · 04-18-2007, 07:15 PM

Iraq took a major downturn into greater civil war. Shia support for Iraq's government withdrew. Reason was that Maliki will not set a timetable for Iraq's enemy - US - to withdrawal. This is followed by bombings that killed 180+ while an American surge (with too few troops) was supposed to be reducing violence.

Interesting are excerpts from PBS's America at a Crossroad where Iraqi soldiers working with Americans to round up insurgent weapon caches are caught on tape saying the larger cache is safely elsewhere. Why do Iraqi Army units fail to follow up in supporting Americans? Why did S Vietnamese units do so poorly without being attached to American units / operations?

Deja vue ... complete with presidential lies about America winning the war, "we must fight them there or here" (Domino Theory), denial of who the enemy really is (surrogates for Russia and China), 'the message' that only got more Americans killed, liberation of people who did not want to be liberated, outright denial of basic military doctrine, a press that is reporting things too negative (when the situation was even worse), an enemy that successfully uses booby traps while not conducting frontal attacks (classic guerrilla warfare), outright denial of conclusions by a study group (the Wise Men), spending money massively and without accounting, and a complete denial that it was a civil war. Nam deja vue.

Hope was that a surge would be long enough and successful enough to permit all sided to start reconciliation. Hope is diminishing quickly this week. Either we start what the ISG recommends now or we accept thousands more death Americans, an Iraq that hates America, and a defeat that is even worse. George Jr continues to advocate 'big dic' thinking (ie we are winning) so that "Mission Accomplished" is not lost on his watch - as was Nixon's agenda. Both presidents being the few who are clearly anti-American - more concerned with a political agenda and with their legacy than in the United States.

Worse are the many who still deny how much worse it will become. Had we been Turkey or Greece and done this to Iraq, then we (as Turkey or Greece) would have been condemned alongside Serbia and Darfur as promoters of genocide.

While so many were watching lesser events (Imus firing; VA shooting), Iraq may have taken what an irreversible turn for the worse.

03-21-2007, 08:20 AM	#2
Hippikos Flocci Non Facio Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In The Line Of Fire Posts: 571	Just a day in the life of Iraq; Tuesday March 20th: 143 Iraqis, 5 GIs Killed; 124 Iraqis Wounded. In Baghdad, a car bomb near a mosque in the Ubaidi area killed one and injured three more. Three people were killed and seven injured during a car bomb attack near a Karrada area bridge. A separate car bomb near a police station killed seven and wounded 20 more. Four were injured when a bomb went of in a mini-bus traveling through eastern Baghdad. Mortars fell in the Abu Dsheer neighborhood where they killed seven and wounded 20 others. Another mortar wounded a man in Zaafaraniya. One person was killed and six others wounded during a bomb in the al-Mashan trade center. A suicide car bomber drove into a checkpoint in western Baghdad where he killed one soldier and wounded another. During a U.S-led raid in Hurriya, three gunmen were killed. Two police officers were injured during a drive-by shooting in the Mahdiya area. Captain Hussein Abdulilah was gunned down in the Mansour district. Also, 32 bodies were recovered mostly in western neighborhoods. The body of a man was discovered in Fallujah. A car bomb west of Fallujah in Halabsa left at least 10 dead and seven injured. Just north of Baghdad on Monday, mortars injured five people while south of Baghdad mortars wounded four more. A body was found in Kirkuk; the victim had been stabbed and tortured. A policeman was gunned down on a main road near Kirkuk. Last night, nine civilians were injured during a car bomb blast near a girls school. Also, the Iraqi army reported killing three gunmen in different locations. Gunmen killed a man and wounded another in the town of al-Zab. A woman and child were injured during a mortar attack in Iskandariya. Two policemen were killed when a bomb exploded near their vehicle in Haditha. In Mosul, clashes erupted between U.S. troops and gunmen. A motorcycle bomb injured no one when it blew up in Madaen. Ten civilians were injured during a drive-by shooting in Bani Saad. During clashes in Tikrit, four gunmen and one civilian were killed, while four others were injured. A previously unreported death occured during an attack in Samarra last night. Several members of the the Shirqat police force were injured during a roadside bomb blast. The bodies of two brothers were recovered in al-Touz. Two truck drivers were kidnapped near Akreesh. For the rest relatively quiet... __________________ Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.

03-22-2007, 06:27 AM	#4
Hippikos Flocci Non Facio Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In The Line Of Fire Posts: 571	Nah, just a quiet day in the Baghdad park... __________________ Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.

03-21-2007, 08:25 AM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	If that's a bad day, once again the Lancet numbers look ridiculous.

04-18-2007, 07:15 PM	#6
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Iraq took a major downturn into greater civil war. Shia support for Iraq's government withdrew. Reason was that Maliki will not set a timetable for Iraq's enemy - US - to withdrawal. This is followed by bombings that killed 180+ while an American surge (with too few troops) was supposed to be reducing violence. Interesting are excerpts from PBS's America at a Crossroad where Iraqi soldiers working with Americans to round up insurgent weapon caches are caught on tape saying the larger cache is safely elsewhere. Why do Iraqi Army units fail to follow up in supporting Americans? Why did S Vietnamese units do so poorly without being attached to American units / operations? Deja vue ... complete with presidential lies about America winning the war, "we must fight them there or here" (Domino Theory), denial of who the enemy really is (surrogates for Russia and China), 'the message' that only got more Americans killed, liberation of people who did not want to be liberated, outright denial of basic military doctrine, a press that is reporting things too negative (when the situation was even worse), an enemy that successfully uses booby traps while not conducting frontal attacks (classic guerrilla warfare), outright denial of conclusions by a study group (the Wise Men), spending money massively and without accounting, and a complete denial that it was a civil war. Nam deja vue. Hope was that a surge would be long enough and successful enough to permit all sided to start reconciliation. Hope is diminishing quickly this week. Either we start what the ISG recommends now or we accept thousands more death Americans, an Iraq that hates America, and a defeat that is even worse. George Jr continues to advocate 'big dic' thinking (ie we are winning) so that "Mission Accomplished" is not lost on his watch - as was Nixon's agenda. Both presidents being the few who are clearly anti-American - more concerned with a political agenda and with their legacy than in the United States. Worse are the many who still deny how much worse it will become. Had we been Turkey or Greece and done this to Iraq, then we (as Turkey or Greece) would have been condemned alongside Serbia and Darfur as promoters of genocide. While so many were watching lesser events (Imus firing; VA shooting), Iraq may have taken what an irreversible turn for the worse.

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