JUDGE: PRES. BUSH'S WIRETAP PROGRAM VIOLATES CONSTITUTION & MUST STOP - Page 3

Flint · 08-20-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

The image that people seem to have of the White House listening to you chat with grandma is uninformed bullshit.

I don't think that is what concerns people. The concern is that when a behavior is tolerated, it is encouraged both to continue and to escalate...

Spexxvet · 08-21-2006, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Do you think Jackson's famous "Hymietown" quote was attacking "behavior"?

That sure was hate speech, IMHO. So on the Democrat side, there's Jesse Jackson. On the repubican side, ther's Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity, Savage, Liddy, et al, some of whom have been around for decades.

MaggieL · 08-21-2006, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

That sure was hate speech, IMHO. So on the Democrat side, there's Jesse Jackson. On the repubican side, ther's Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity, Savage, Liddy, et al, some of whom have been around for decades.

That wasn't exhaustive, it was a counterexample intended to show you're cherrypicking...not hard to do on either side.

Spexxvet · 08-20-2006, 09:13 PM

This phone tapping for no reason may be a good idea. It shouldn't be long before the government goes house to house, searching for firearms that might be used by terrorists.

Undertoad · 08-20-2006, 09:31 PM

The current hatred-spewing comment from the left comes from Andrew Young, who in defending WalMart, said

Quote:

...they ran the 'mom and pop' stores out of my neighborhood, ... But you see, those are the people who have been overcharging us selling us stale bread and bad meat and wilted vegetables. And they sold out and moved to Florida. I think they've ripped off our communities enough. First it was Jews, then it was Koreans and now it's Arabs; very few black people own these stores.

The diplomatic Mr. Young was Ambassador to the UN.

The current hatred-spewing comment from the right comes from George Allen, who at a recent campaign appearance, pointed to an Indian-looking gentleman who was filming him, working for the opposition, and said

Quote:

This fellow here over here with the yellow shirt, Macaca, or whatever his name is. He's with my opponent. He's following us around everywhere. And it's just great. We're going to places all over Virginia, and he's having it on film and it's great to have you here and you show it to your opponent because he's never been there and probably will never come. [...] Let's give a welcome to Macaca, here. Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia outside of the beltway.

The "Macaca" reference was ill-defended once it was traced back to Allen's mother's roots, where the term is a deep ethnic slur. Personally I feel the "Welcome to America" comment is just as damning spoken to anyone brown.

Mr. Allen is a sitting Senator of the US and, prior to the comment, thought to be a possible candidate for the Presidency 2008.

Ibby · 08-20-2006, 10:24 PM

I don't care WHO it targeted if it wasn't signed off as legal by a judge.

I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again...
What makes a connection to Al-Qaieda?
If I buy a carpet from a middle-eastern rug salesman who's brother's best friend once prayed at the same mosque as a guy who once prayed at a different mosque that Bin Laden's cousin once prayed at... is that a valid connection? Could they then listen to my international call to my girlfriend who lives in the US?

Undertoad · 08-20-2006, 10:39 PM

Probably. You have to think as if your calls can be listened to, because if not the authorities local to you, every authority through which the call is routed is capable and has an interest in listening in.

The good news is that they have no interest in your chatter, in fact your chatter is terrible noise to them, because you're likely to talk about anything, which means your conversation is more likely to contain triggering keywords and phrases, without actually being useful.

Flint · 08-21-2006, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

triggering keywords and phrases

Things like: being critical of the US government, for instance. We should probably avoid saying anything bad about the US government, because they might be listening, and if they hear something they don't like, we know they can make us vanish, with no explanation provided to anybody, and ship us overseas to be tortured, etc.

So . . . that isn't likely to chill free speech or participative democracy?

Ibby · 08-20-2006, 10:56 PM

Actually the chatter is probably downright painful, as I lose all male dignity while talking to her and force myself to act cute cause she knows I'm not like that and finds it hilarious.

Undertoad · 08-21-2006, 08:33 AM

Not really. People who are that paranoid don't vote, because they're sure it'll get them on a list.

Flint · 08-21-2006, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

that paranoid

But, which part of what I said isn't actually happening?
Other than the specific content of the calls, which we don't know.

It's an article of faith that these methods are being used responsibly.

Pie · 08-21-2006, 08:38 AM

Every time I talk with my mom in Arizona, I make sure to throw in a few statements for the NSA... Wouldn't want them to get bored.

Undertoad · 08-21-2006, 09:05 AM

Almost all of what you said isn't happening. But if it's helpful to consider, you make a similar leap of faith just driving down the highway. The chances that you'll be shot by local cops in a case of mistaken identity is much greater than being tied into international terror because you said you hate Bush on a international phone call.

My friends are still all present and accounted-for.

Spexxvet · 08-21-2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Almost all of what you said isn't happening. But if it's helpful to consider, you make a similar leap of faith just driving down the highway. The chances that you'll be shot by local cops in a case of mistaken identity is much greater than being tied into international terror because you said you hate Bush on a international phone call.

My friends are still all present and accounted-for.

Do you happen to be friends with former ambassador Wilson? This administration penalizes dissent or opposition. That's why I don't trust unsupervised phone survailance. You may not disappear, but Zey Haff Vays uff making you pay.

Flint · 08-21-2006, 09:12 AM

If you remove the clearly speculative phone-call aspect of it, which parts of what I said aren't happening?

08-20-2006, 09:13 PM	#4
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	This phone tapping for no reason may be a good idea. It shouldn't be long before the government goes house to house, searching for firearms that might be used by terrorists. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

08-20-2006, 10:24 PM	#6
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	I don't care WHO it targeted if it wasn't signed off as legal by a judge. I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again... What makes a connection to Al-Qaieda? If I buy a carpet from a middle-eastern rug salesman who's brother's best friend once prayed at the same mosque as a guy who once prayed at a different mosque that Bin Laden's cousin once prayed at... is that a valid connection? Could they then listen to my international call to my girlfriend who lives in the US? __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

08-20-2006, 10:56 PM	#9
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Actually the chatter is probably downright painful, as I lose all male dignity while talking to her and force myself to act cute cause she knows I'm not like that and finds it hilarious. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

08-21-2006, 08:38 AM	#12
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	Every time I talk with my mom in Arizona, I make sure to throw in a few statements for the NSA... Wouldn't want them to get bored. __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

08-21-2006, 09:12 AM	#15
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	If you remove the clearly speculative phone-call aspect of it, which parts of what I said aren't happening? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-20-2006, 10:39 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Probably. You have to think as if your calls can be listened to, because if not the authorities local to you, every authority through which the call is routed is capable and has an interest in listening in. The good news is that they have no interest in your chatter, in fact your chatter is terrible noise to them, because you're likely to talk about anything, which means your conversation is more likely to contain triggering keywords and phrases, without actually being useful.

08-21-2006, 08:33 AM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Not really. People who are that paranoid don't vote, because they're sure it'll get them on a list.

08-21-2006, 09:05 AM	#13
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Almost all of what you said isn't happening. But if it's helpful to consider, you make a similar leap of faith just driving down the highway. The chances that you'll be shot by local cops in a case of mistaken identity is much greater than being tied into international terror because you said you hate Bush on a international phone call. My friends are still all present and accounted-for.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)