So, what is the difference....

[JayMcGee]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I believe what they were shipping were more accurate munitions to try to prevent as much collateral damage as possible.

That worked , then......


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/5228224.stm

[JayMcGee]

mmmm...... says it all......

god'damit..... those ayrab towelheads.... all the same.....

[MaggieL]

I somehow missed the place where when you're attacked you're required to only defend yourself "proportionately"...and when combatants hide among civilians you're guilty of a "collective punishment" war crime when you defend yourself. You'd better do some more detailed investigation of the Law of War, because you're talking out your ass on this one.

What a load of "moral equivalance" bullshit. When you are attacked with deadly force, you are entiitled to defend yourself with deadly force, and you need not stop until you are no longer threatened.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

I somehow missed the place where when you're attacked you're required to only defend yourself "proportionately"...and when combatants hide among civilians you're guilty of a "collective punishment" war crime when you defend yourself. You'd better do some more detailed investigation of the Law of War, because you're talking out your ass on this one.

What a load of "moral equivalance" bullshit. When you are attacked with deadly force, you are entiitled to defend yourself with deadly force, and you need not stop until you are no longer threatened.

I agree. After 911, we took care of Afghanistan. And then, after Iraq attacked us, we.......wait a minute.....

[tw]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I agree. After 911, we took care of Afghanistan. And then, after Iraq attacked us, we.......wait a minute.....

Yes, we are right back to what is necessary to justify any war - the smoking gun. None existed. But when did that stop Cheney from promoting war as a final solution in Iraq, Iran, N Korea, S Lebanon, Syria, Sudan .... Oh. Sudan has nothing we want. Therefore where genocide does exist, is one sided, and is acceptable by any standards; instead, Cheney has no interest. Clearly Hezbollah is more evil than genocide in Sudan.

200 sunk ships off east coast US was not justification for war. Yes, a country does have the right to defend itself. But even 200 sunk ships is not justification. A trivial kidnapping of some soldiers also does not meet that 'smoking gun' criteria. By now, everyone who was here when we discussed Iraq in 2002 should have no doubt about that history lesson. War without a smoking gun is not justified.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

What a load of "moral equivalance" bullshit.

Any chance the right can give up the phoney moral equivelency card? Maybe as a trade for the left's bullshit righteous indignation card? I've read about enough crap from two utterly failed statist systems.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Griff

Any chance the right can give up the phoney moral equivelency card?

Only if the left stops playing it. When someone defends themselves from a terrorist attack, they're just plain not morally equivalant. This mindless relativism is intellectually bankrupt. Jay's drivel in this thread is a prime example.

[JayMcGee]

There is no justification for this, maggie.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/5228224.stm

Go on, defend the indefensible.....

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/5228224.stm

Go on, defend the indefensible.....

For starters, let's wait until all the information is in.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...3816,00.html#n

An IDF investigation has found that the building in Qana struck by the Air Force fell around eight hours after being hit by the IDF.

"The attack on the structure in the Qana village took place between midnight and one in the morning. The gap between the timing of the collapse of the building and the time of the strike on it is unclear," Brigadier General Amir Eshel, Head of the Air Force Headquarters told journalists at the Defense Ministry in Tel Aviv, following the incidents at Qana.

Eshel and the head of the IDF's Operational Branch, Major General Gadi Eisnkot said the structure was not being attacked when it collapsed, at around 8:00 in the morning.

The IDF believes that Hizbullah explosives in the building were behind the explosion that caused the collapse.

Another possibility is that the rickety building remained standing for a few hours, but eventually collapsed. "It could be that inside the building, things that could eventually cause an explosion were being housed, things that we could not blow up in the attack, and maybe remained there, Brigadier General Eshel said.

Now then.

Aussie Herald Sun, under the headline "Photos that Damn Hisbullah". It's a bit of overstatement but here are their two shots, smuggled out of the area, of un-uniformed Hez fighters, dressed to walk away and blend in, moving mobile cannons and launchers and firing right out of a suburban zone.





When irregulars move strategically in and out of civilian areas and are fired upon, killing the civilians, this is a war crime. Jay, it is a war crime for the irregulars. And this is very clear.

Hezbollah is the operational government in the area. It is their job to defend and protect civilians. Instead they intentionally ensure that civilian targets will be fired upon. There is no excuse for this sort of behavior. You can't defend it - it is indefensible.

[Undertoad]

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government...0-Jul-2006.htm

This page contains four videos of actual Hezbollah rocket launches from the middle of towns, right next to residential buildings and homes.

It also contains a copy of the leaflet dropped telling the citizens to abandon the war zone.

[Undertoad]

This 30-foot-high banner of Condi appeared on the streets on Beirut hours after the Qana attack, protesting it. Translation: "The massacre of children in Qana 2, is the gift of Rice. The clever bombs... Stupid"

Powerline asks the leading question

What seems odd about this is that the banner was unfurled within hours after the Qana attack took place. The building where the civilians died was bombed on Sunday morning, and the demonstration took place during daylight hours, later the same day.

The entire controversy is understood and employed within hours... if nothing else, the Hez propaganda machine is pretty remarkable, isn't it?

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's a nasty picture.....her husband won't like that.

They must have excellent printing services to whip up that banner in a couple hours...or less.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They must have excellent printing services to whip up that banner in a couple hours...or less.

Flown in from the Teheran Kinkos, no doubt.

[Ibby]

It's a bit of overstatement but here are their two shots, smuggled out of the area, of un-uniformed Hez fighters, dressed to walk away and blend in, moving mobile cannons and launchers and firing right out of a suburban zone.

That's one that that has ALWAYS gotten me about the fights in afghanistan, iraq, and now lebanon...

All the terrorists have to do is throw down their AK47 or drop their RPG and theyre 'civillians', and then when they get a bomb dropped on them theyre just another 'civillian' casualty.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Ibram

All the terrorists have to do is throw down their AK47 or drop their RPG and theyre 'civillians', and then when they get a bomb dropped on them theyre just another 'civillian' casualty.

Which completely ignores reality. Pilots have no idea who they are bombing. They cannot even see rockets, AK-47, etc. A rocket was launched from a town hours previously. Therefore the town's three story apartment building is attacked.

Those rockets can even be launched with a timer. Where a rocket has launched means there is no enemy there. Fire the rocket and leave. Bombs come later to attack the local population. Bomb anything that could be a bunker. In frustration, a pilot is told to attack the town anyway. A rocket came from that town. Therefore everyone in that town is 'evil'. Welcome to a little fact they forget to mention about the bombing.

If Israel really wants to stop rockets and kill combatants, then Israel must invade: boots on the ground. No way around that fact. No way whatsoever. A fact so obvious that everyone here should have known it. Israel is simply punishing everyone in that 20 mile region AND in Tyre, Beirut, on Lebanon's highways, etc. They are all 'evil' since the Lebanese Army does not evict Hezbollah. You knew that pilots cannot even see rockets waiting to launch? You tell me who is and is not a combatant? You cannot because we (The Cellar) nor Israelis have any troops on the ground.

No ground controllers means bombing without knowing who they are. Those bombers are not taking out combatants. Bombers are attacking anyone - including UN personal and aid convoys. Why? Without troops on the ground, those planes have no idea what they are attacking. Anyone who did not know that is fodder for propaganda machines. Israel's military operations make no distinction between civilian or combatant because ground spotters do not exist. Israelis know this. They bomb anyway and tell you they were combatants or regrettable mistakes. There are no mistakes. There are no ground spotters. The purpose is to drive everyone out. How could this not be obvious? Because most people assume planes can see these rockets they are attacking. Wrong. They are attacking long after rockets have been fired AND after combatants have left the area. What is sometimes left? Civilians.