North Korea fires missles

[Undertoad]

Which is what?

[Elspode]

I'm sure I'm overlooking something, but isn't a North Korean ICBM just *begging* for the US to prove its missle defense technology? Not that we have any that works, but I'm just sayin...

[tw]

Originally Posted by Elspode

I'm sure I'm overlooking something, but isn't a North Korean ICBM just *begging* for the US to prove its missle defense technology?

Silly. The US has a paper missile defense system that means we need not waste money on schools. It is nonsense. And then what are we defending from. Only worse case speculation says that missile can reach some remote parts of Alaska. So what? Well it makes those N Korean extremists happy while Kim Jung Il desperately tries to get the world to engage N Korea - to help him get N Koreans to understand a basic fact - the world is not trying to destroy N Korea.

But here in America where Cheney still has a big penis, cold war mentality, we are even building a missile defense system that does not work AND that our best experts say cannot work.

More big penis reasoning by leaders who see enemies everywhere.

[tw]

Even world events apply to Korea. For example, how did the US respond to Iran?

How to shake up American who don't take N Korea seriously? Carter did. Albright did. But instead our current leadership promotes N Korean extremists rather then engage N Korean intelligent leaders - centrists - the moderates. It’s called a big penis mentality that too often leads only to war.

N Korea has Cheney type (veins hanging from the lips) extremists AND others who know that will only make N Korea even worse. How do you get those big penis vein eaters to become part of the world?

What does S Korea (and N Korean moderates) want? If your perspective is sound bytes and charactures, then you have not a clue and probably have a big penis brain. Meanwhile, those who deal with Kim Jung Il recognize him as a sophisticated and intelligent man in a country full of 'mad man' leaders. You tell me how he takes his country into the world?

Well Jimmy Carter got the Nobel Prize for finding a perfect solution - that was supported by S Korea and Japan - and then subverted by an intelligent George Jr. George Jr did to the N Korean solution what he also did the Oslo Accords.

The only reason why N Korea is not stepping into becoming part of the world is US - in particular Cheney who does not even understand his 'big penis' mentality also may be recreating a second cold war with Russia. I should not have to explain that either because it is acknowledged and worried about by intelligent scholars.

How to solve two problems with one action. It is no coincidence that they would launch three types of missiles when the shuttle was launched, on 4 July, AND when George Jr is isolating N Korea rather than engaging it. First the big penis extremists in N Korea were appeased because they could show off the size of their penis. At the same time, intelligent N Korean leaders now have Americans - even your - attention. That is what they want. Otherwise the big penis extremists in N Korea entrench the country in to the inevitable - nuclear war.

Are you listening or does you penis replace your brain? If any paragraph here confuses you, you have not been doing what good voters do - learn what is happening. Nothing here should be new to you. Are they saber rattling? Of course. Did you ask why? If you did not understand the many different perspectives from so many different Koreans; if you think for one minute that N Korea is a monolithic entity like George Jr proclaims to his mental midget supporters, then we might as well go to war right now.

Kim Jung Il has long been trying to engage the world while in a country that would rather murder him for doing that. Do you blindly believe Rush Limbaugh hype that Kim Jung Il is a madman? Then you have not a clue.

Mike Chinoy has covered North Korea for nearly two decades. If what he says in not common knowledge, then you a perfect recruit for the big penis attitude promoted by Rush Limbaugh and Cheney. There is no big monolithic 'evil' N Korea as the American mental midgets would promote. This N Korean problem is directly traceable to moderates who desperately need to integrate N Korea into the world and a S Korea that wants to start a reunification that will take over 40+ years - as wacko N Korean extremists learn how not to think like Cheney. Currently most N Koreans are routinely brainwashed in lies that the whole world wants to destroy them. What an almost impossible situation for Kim Jung Il. Made even worse by so many wacko Americans who know and yet did not even learn the many perspectives in N Korea.

My previous URL was in error. This is a one hour discussion that should be common knowledge - to have opinions about N Korea:
Radio Times of 5 Jul 2006

[MsSparkie]

An American friend who is into rockets wrote this...do you agree?

"No Scud Soviet designation SS-1. It works more like a WW2 V2 only more accurate. The booster carries the warhead all the way to target. Staged boosters are a different animal altogether. Its an eclusive club. To my knowledge (I'm no expert) the only countries that posess staged rockets are US, Russia, China, and France. Pakistan and India may have them. If not they probably are not far off.

Although the NK missile failed they still recieved telemetry from it. Correcting the failure could be as simple as adding a battery operated heater to a valve that froze."



"...we have systems that are designed to hit aircraft. Some can be used against a missile IF......IF it is in a position to run it down. Hitting a rocket that can travel into the upper atmosphere is another project altogether. A rocket like a scud travels in a long wide arc or in the case of more sophisticated system like our cruis missiles a flat line. A staged rocket goes almost straight up. Once high enough it can release its warhead which then free falls to its target. When its burning fuel a heat seeker can key in on it if its in position. Once past apogee its no longer burning fuel and it has a very small radar signature to track. Thats what the ballistic missile defence sheild idea was all about. Unfortunantly it was poo pood ridiculed and called Star Wars as if it were fantasy. It was only a matter of time till this genie was out of the bottle."

[AlternateGray]

That kind of echoes something I'd heard from a friend who had spent several years in S. Korea and put some effort into understanding the situation. It's been a few years, but he said something about the N. Koreans having a very odd negotiating process, and that there was almost no chance that N. Korea would actually start an armed conflict as it would conflict with their goals. This seems very odd for a nation that pours all of its resources into it's military, but... he also said that the Bush admin showed no signs of understanding or respecting the complex relationship between the U.S. and North Korea, and that diplomatic achievements and understandings made during previous admin's were pretty much erased. This seems like a dangerous situation.

Standby, put someone in there who knows what N. Korea's all about, and defend if necessary. From your account, tw, that last option will not be necessary; my earlier, somewhat unclear point was that if by some crazy chance war does break out, the whole peninsula is screwed. Regardless of what N. Korea's true intentions are, what really matters is how they're going to be interpreted by others in power. Which brings me back to, Pres. Bush just leaving the damned situation alone. I don't know. Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit; maybe he has more savvy advisers than he did six years ago. But if he does pick the insane route, i.e. starting a fight with N. Korea, I'm hoping they let the generals into the war room this time- not that it's going to matter much.

[xoxoxoBruce]

From what I've heard it's not ready yet.

Unlikly a war with North Korea 'cause that could put walmart out of business.

[Undertoad]

I'm sure I'm overlooking something, but isn't a North Korean ICBM just *begging* for the US to prove its missle defense technology?

Maybe it did.

If it did, they wouldn't say it worked, if it went undetected.

[MsSparkie]

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=2153892

[Undertoad]

Bri asked "Are we secretly doing things to threaten Kim"

One aspect - maybe from tw's radio times link - is that we are shutting down the ability of overseas banks to accept the counterfeit dollars that the Norks are producing, squeezing him economically.

Full embargo.

[tw]

Previous was only analysis of past history. Next look future. We had a perfect deal to buy off Kim - to give him something to engage his extremists so they will learn how introverted they were. It got Jimmy Carter the Nobel Peace Prize. And then we (ie Congress) destroyed it using rhetoric rather than logic.

Kim Jong-Il is all but begging the world to buy him out - to give him something so that he can open his country (and his extremists) to the world. But with each new weapon system, that cost becomes higher.

Jimmy Carter bought off Kim cheaply. A couple of nuclear power plants and some oil. The next deal will no longer be so inexpensive. He now has missiles that work (but probably have no accuracy - inferior guidance systems). That means cost of buying him out has become much higher.

Tell an American extremist (like Cheney) that we will buy out Kim and Cheney will instead demand war. That is the current American mentality. The cost of buying out Kim is already way too high for extremist Americans to swallow. And over time, the same price will only get higher. Right now, we could buy out Kim Jong-Il real cheap - when compared to how much more expensive that price will become.

With those missile launches, Kim is telling us what the new price will be. This is not what he wants. This is the price he must get to satisfy his extremists. And without a famine, that price is even higher.

Are you looking forward? Do you see what George Jr did to kill off that Jimmy Carter agreement AND do you understand what ignoring N Korea means in the cost of settlement? Of course, we could just continue sitting on our hands and doing nothing - and then war breaks out. Why do you think the S Koreans (and rightly so) regard American as the greater threat to peace.

That radio broadcast should have opened many eyes to the problem we have created by underming the Jimmy Carter settlement.

War is created by failures at the negotiation table. Kim Jong-Il (probably even to avoid assassination) desperately needs a deal he can sell to his extremists. With each new weapons system, that price increases immensely. When were you going to understand this? The Jimmy Carter deal was what - 10 years ago?

[tw]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Full embargo.

It already exists. It only entrenches those extremists which is why they want more destructive weapons. The only solution is engagement - so that those extremists and their brain washed population learn they have been lied to about the world.

[tw]

North Korea is returning to multi-nation talks. Little mentioned - N Korea got what they demanded. N Korea refused to talk multi-nation and wanted bilateral talks with the US. Well the US propaganda machine quickly promoted resumption of multi-nation talks after N Korea did an atomic explosion. What US 'lying by telling half truth' purveyors forget to mention - bilateral talks were conducted elsewhere in Berlin as a pre-requisite for further multi-national discussions. From Washington Post of 8 Feb 2007:

N. Korea Nuke Talks Resume on Positive Note
The Chinese chief negotiator and host, Vice Foreign Minister Wu Dawei, suggested there were hopes of breaking a long stalemate that has led to questions about the future of the talks, which have been grinding away since August 2003. At a formal opening session, he qualified the new round as a "fresh start" made possible by agreements reached last month in separate bilateral discussions in Berlin between U.S. and North Korean diplomats.

What will it take to move forward - to bring N Korea back into the world community? Well already the US is slowly moving back to the same agreement negotiated by Jimmy Carter one decade earlier. Same agreement destroyed by the 'big dic' diplomacy of George Jr.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in a congressional hearing she was "cautiously optimistic" that there will now be solid progress "toward the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula."

But don't fool yourself. N Korea previously agreed to stop their nuclear program in exchange for oil and two nuclear reactors. Then a Republican Congress canceled those trivial oil shipments. A new deal will cost many times more now that N Korea has demonstrated an atomic explosion. American 'big dics' can dump $billions of American taxpayer money in Iraq (it probably bought all those satellite dishes so hyped as 'progress'). But same 'big dics' even cut off trivial oil shipments to N Korea as too expensive - torpedoing the Carter deal. 'Big dics' apparently only understand fraud, bribery, K-Street, and 'dictatorship masking as democracy'. 'Big dics' fear negotiations to avoid war.

In order to bring N Korea into the world - in order for Kim to buy off his 'big dic' extremists without being killed in a coup d'etat - the cost of an agreement will be significant. Unfortunately, American is dominated by 'big dic' mentalities such as Cheney and Urbane Guerrilla. Talks will probably stalemate until America elects an intelligent leader - a centrist. But that means cost of a settlement - and that settlement is absolutely necessary - will only increase as N Korean 'big dics' accomplish more nuclear advancements and gain more power within N Korea.

U.S. officials have said their intelligence indicates North Korea has accumulated enough plutonium to fuel as many as 10 nuclear weapons and its main facility, at Yongbyon, is producing more. In addition, U.S. officials have said North Korea has a separate uranium enrichment program to produce more weapons material ...

So a buyout is already very expensive and getting more expensive.

Obviously, Jimmy Carter's deal (which earned him the Nobel Prize) is looking better each year. Shame that so many who listen only to Fox News and Rush Limbaugh were not publicly mocked and hanged in effigy in 2001. So now we pay for the sins of our extremists - our 'big dics'. And that does not even include the $2 trillion for "Mission Accomplished" or that bin Laden runs free. Those too are accomplishments of 'big dics'.

What is the situation with N Korea? Mike Chinoy detailed that relationship in a one hour interview on Radio Times on 5 Jul 2006. Go to that web site for Radio Times to select the broadcast date (5 Jul 2006). Wednesday PBS interview is the first hour.

[Trilby]

tw has all the answers, all the time.