The New "Tolerance" - Page 10

Bullitt · 06-30-2006, 10:32 AM

The way I view my Christianity is this:
Everyone has sinned, and will sin throughout their life. We do this because we were given free will to choose for ourselves how to live our lives. Along with this free will comes the decision, whether or not to accept that God exists, and he sent Jesus to die for us and give us the chance to redeem ourselves of our ongoing sin. We do this by just accepting that fact. Its not a complicated thing really, you admit, accept, and are forgiven. But if you truly believe it, then you won't have the mindset of "Sweet now I've got a free ticket into Heaven, lets party man! Where the hoes at!?"
The people who really believe feel heartfelt guilt over their sin, and strive to be better people, and set a non-verbal example to the people around them of how to live a decent life, doing the best they can. Real Christians don't think they are perfect, don't try to be perfect, and know that no one is perfect. They just try to live life how it was suppossed to be, without all the hatred.

Thats the doctrine or whatever you want to call it that I subscribe to.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-30-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt

The way I view my Christianity is this:
Everyone has sinned, and will sin throughout their life. ~snip

Yeah but the tricky part is what is a sin and what is not. Ask ten people and you'll get ten answers.
Churches (organized religions) have clerics that are quick to tell you this or that is a sin but they don't agree with each other.
So who decides, God?

Flint · 06-30-2006, 03:21 PM

I believe Jesus was a great teacher, and set a good example for others. I don't understand the purpose behind believing that he is "magic" or that there is some contrived scenario involving his death being a poker chip that God cashes in to the karma factory to make bad people turn good again. I don't see the value in that, and I don't understand the origins of that logical pretzel. I don't think it has anything to do with anything Jesus himself ever taught, which should be a "red flag" . . .

PizzaMonkey · 06-30-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I believe Jesus was a great teacher, and set a good example for others. I don't understand the purpose behind believing that he is "magic" or that there is some contrived scenario involving his death being a poker chip that God cashes in to the karma factory to make bad people turn good again. I don't see the value in that, and I don't understand the origins of that logical pretzel. I don't think it has anything to do with anything Jesus himself ever taught, which should be a "red flag" . . .

Er... flint, Jesus repeatedly claims to be God.

He's either nuts, evil, or telling the truth. As CS Lewis put it, Liar, Lunatic, or Lord. Not that I buy Christianity, but I just thought I'd put it out there.

And Buhddism isn't a religion? I sure seems like one.

And I wasn't saying people should be perfect, I think that they should try their hardest to resist the temptation to do something that will obviously hurt others. Doesn't mean they won't give in sometimes, doesn't mean they won't be conned into doing something wrong.

Ibby · 06-30-2006, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PizzaMonkey

And Buhddism isn't a religion? I sure seems like one.

Buddhism, to me, isnt a religion, because it asks for no faith. It's all logic and facts, all grounded in reality. It doesnt ask you to believe that buddha is some all-powerful being, just that he is a teacher.

Bullitt · 06-30-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I believe Jesus was a great teacher, and set a good example for others. I don't understand the purpose behind believing that he is "magic" or that there is some contrived scenario involving his death being a poker chip that God cashes in to the karma factory to make bad people turn good again. I don't see the value in that, and I don't understand the origins of that logical pretzel. I don't think it has anything to do with anything Jesus himself ever taught, which should be a "red flag" . . .

This will probably sound like nonsense to you, but to me its not about understanding a purpose behind it all, its about feeling.

Reporter: "Mother Theresa, when you pray what do you say to God?"
Mother Theresa: "I do not say anything, I listen" Reporter: "Well as you listen to God, what does he say to you?"
Mother Theresa: "He doesn't say anything, He listens"

Contemporary logic does not apply to feeling, so it can never explain faith.

Flint · 06-30-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PizzaMonkey

Er... flint, Jesus repeatedly claims to be God.

That is one interpretation, yes - but not the only one, and . . . please humor me by explaining, specifically, does Jesus say anything about his death having magical qualities to the individual who just believes hard enough?

PizzaMonkey · 07-01-2006, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

That is one interpretation, yes - but not the only one, and . . . please humor me by explaining, specifically, does Jesus say anything about his death having magical qualities to the individual who just believes hard enough?

No, how could he, he was dead.

And it isn't supposed to be "Magic". "Magic" is deemed evil by the Bible.

wolf · 07-01-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PizzaMonkey

And it isn't supposed to be "Magic". "Magic" is deemed evil by the Bible.

Not so ... of the 16 mentions of magic (or magician), none of them describe magic as evil.

Flint · 06-30-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt

This will probably sound like nonsense to you, but to me its not about understanding a purpose behind it all, its about feeling.

It sounds perfectly natural, not nonsense at all. I just like to "understand" who actually came up with the dogma that people follow, out of respect to the teacher whose name it is being tacked on, IE Jesus - the guy who never said any of that stuff. And yes, there are people who would like to manipulate your "feelings" with this contrived dogma. My point is: what does it have to do with the message that Jesus taught? That, I would think, is the important part, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Contemporary logic does not apply to feeling, so it can never explain faith.

I think Jesus would appreciate you applying some logic to the interpretation of his message in it's pure, beautiful form, before all the complex political agendas turned it into a farce. In that case, logic would be your ally. In that case, I think Jesus would appreciate the use of some logic to slice away the garbage that he has been slandered with.

Happy Monkey · 07-01-2006, 06:30 AM

Sort of like Jefferson's Jesus, I suppose.

skysidhe · 07-03-2006, 12:04 PM

Don't be confused about the inconsistencys in the Christian religion. One article link I posted discribes Christianity and Islam as the biggest threat to peace in the world. I quit with my religion after belonging then realizing there isn't a place for me on such shaky ground.

There are inconsistencys in the Bible and what people say about because many people scribed it. Many interpretaions from the original text and alot of people not researching for themselves. Oh and the political power a religion of this size brings.

There is a bigger picture than ideologies. No wonder followers are called sheep.
I frankly don't want to be a sheep even though I've been called a wolf in sheeps clothing.

( online )

I am not confused by prophecy vs divination.So one is supposedly of god one of the devil? pish posh I say.

To me they are the same action.
As for me I regard The dreams interpretations of Daniel and the prophecys of David to plain ole divination.
A kings greatest men , called wise men can divine but not the meak? I think not. Can great men of their time use theseal of Solomon or the Star of David. A symbol of Protection and warding off of demons exclusively? I think not.

Here is a section of my reference:
Astrologers are referred to in the Book of Daniel (Old Testament) as "wise men". It is prudent to conclude that the magi who were guided by "a star" possessed the skills of astrologer / astronomers. In the days of the ancients, astrology and astronomy were a singular principle science and no king or ruler was without the counsel of the stars. ie:
- The Star of Bethlehem.
the star of david
http://www.aloha.net/~johnboy/star.htg/David.gif

http://sciastro.net/portia/articles/thestar.htm

There was Magic too :

Such as Jesus preforming supernatural feats by
changing water into wine
healing the blind.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/divin_bibl.htm
More examples in link page.

It isn't just dogma. It is the way religious history as played out.All of this 'testing the spirits' has to be put away for the church to have total control. This is why the words of the new testement are diminished and our thinking brainwashed so that everything must be evil. Control by fear is the American way. It has to be. We are 90% a Christian country.

One must understand the opression of Paganism.
Celtic or Roman. The taking over of pagan holidays.
( they are on our calendars ...and the sun too btw) was the churches number one goal NOT to save souls but to gain control and power.

As for our present situations. If people DON'T think for themsleves then a persons power individually or collectively is diminished.

....the idea the New Testament was tryint to say.
was this.

'Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.' - 1 John 4:1

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/R...heSpirits.html

and what went on after those words were scribed was the elimination of Roman paganism ( by the Church and not by gods decree)

Between 1500 and 1900 there were few places where Christianity did not become the official faith by force.

http://www.geocities.com/athens/rhod...eRuthless.html

The only thing we have to remember is the chuch is the called 'the great whore' by revelations. is it any wonder after our last two elections.? Can it be any more evident than it is now? People call themselves Christians because they want to feel something. You can get anyone to do anything by evoking emotions. That's my take on it anyway.

skysidhe · 07-03-2006, 12:46 PM

I know that was a sucky post. I can't even make sense out of it. The idea is just so big and with a tiny vessel of a brain like mine to contain it.

The church is all about oppression is all I wanted to say. lol

Flint · 07-03-2006, 12:47 PM

Jesus overturned the corrupt system of his time, and we replaced it with a new corrupt system, with his name on it. No matter how many Jesus' show up to correct things, they turn sour again. If Jesus showed up today, he would smash "Christianity" and replace it with something new - and then this new thing would be twisted and exploited in just the same way.

Read what you want to read, don't let anybody tell you how to understand it, and don't call yourself anything. Joining special clubs won't benefit you in any way other than the completely selfish, superficial, and worldly way that the plumber with a fish on his van hopes to get more business.

Kitsune · 07-03-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

plumber with a fish on his van hopes to get more business.

Get with the times. Real Christians have upgraded to The Praying Calvin decal.

06-30-2006, 10:32 AM	#1
Bullitt This is a fully functional babe lair Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,324	The way I view my Christianity is this: Everyone has sinned, and will sin throughout their life. We do this because we were given free will to choose for ourselves how to live our lives. Along with this free will comes the decision, whether or not to accept that God exists, and he sent Jesus to die for us and give us the chance to redeem ourselves of our ongoing sin. We do this by just accepting that fact. Its not a complicated thing really, you admit, accept, and are forgiven. But if you truly believe it, then you won't have the mindset of "Sweet now I've got a free ticket into Heaven, lets party man! Where the hoes at!?" The people who really believe feel heartfelt guilt over their sin, and strive to be better people, and set a non-verbal example to the people around them of how to live a decent life, doing the best they can. Real Christians don't think they are perfect, don't try to be perfect, and know that no one is perfect. They just try to live life how it was suppossed to be, without all the hatred. Thats the doctrine or whatever you want to call it that I subscribe to. __________________ Kiss my white Irish ass. Last edited by Bullitt; 06-30-2006 at 10:36 AM.

06-30-2006, 03:21 PM	#3
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I believe Jesus was a great teacher, and set a good example for others. I don't understand the purpose behind believing that he is "magic" or that there is some contrived scenario involving his death being a poker chip that God cashes in to the karma factory to make bad people turn good again. I don't see the value in that, and I don't understand the origins of that logical pretzel. I don't think it has anything to do with anything Jesus himself ever taught, which should be a "red flag" . . . __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

07-01-2006, 06:30 AM	#11
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Sort of like Jefferson's Jesus, I suppose. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

07-03-2006, 12:04 PM	#12
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	Don't be confused about the inconsistencys in the Christian religion. One article link I posted discribes Christianity and Islam as the biggest threat to peace in the world. I quit with my religion after belonging then realizing there isn't a place for me on such shaky ground. There are inconsistencys in the Bible and what people say about because many people scribed it. Many interpretaions from the original text and alot of people not researching for themselves. Oh and the political power a religion of this size brings. There is a bigger picture than ideologies. No wonder followers are called sheep. I frankly don't want to be a sheep even though I've been called a wolf in sheeps clothing. ( online ) I am not confused by prophecy vs divination.So one is supposedly of god one of the devil? pish posh I say. To me they are the same action. As for me I regard The dreams interpretations of Daniel and the prophecys of David to plain ole divination. A kings greatest men , called wise men can divine but not the meak? I think not. Can great men of their time use theseal of Solomon or the Star of David. A symbol of Protection and warding off of demons exclusively? I think not. Here is a section of my reference: Astrologers are referred to in the Book of Daniel (Old Testament) as "wise men". It is prudent to conclude that the magi who were guided by "a star" possessed the skills of astrologer / astronomers. In the days of the ancients, astrology and astronomy were a singular principle science and no king or ruler was without the counsel of the stars. ie: - The Star of Bethlehem. the star of david http://www.aloha.net/~johnboy/star.htg/David.gif http://sciastro.net/portia/articles/thestar.htm There was Magic too : Such as Jesus preforming supernatural feats by changing water into wine healing the blind. http://www.religioustolerance.org/divin_bibl.htm More examples in link page. It isn't just dogma. It is the way religious history as played out.All of this 'testing the spirits' has to be put away for the church to have total control. This is why the words of the new testement are diminished and our thinking brainwashed so that everything must be evil. Control by fear is the American way. It has to be. We are 90% a Christian country. One must understand the opression of Paganism. Celtic or Roman. The taking over of pagan holidays. ( they are on our calendars ...and the sun too btw) was the churches number one goal NOT to save souls but to gain control and power. As for our present situations. If people DON'T think for themsleves then a persons power individually or collectively is diminished. ....the idea the New Testament was tryint to say. was this. 'Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.' - 1 John 4:1 http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/R...heSpirits.html and what went on after those words were scribed was the elimination of Roman paganism ( by the Church and not by gods decree) Between 1500 and 1900 there were few places where Christianity did not become the official faith by force. http://www.geocities.com/athens/rhod...eRuthless.html The only thing we have to remember is the chuch is the called 'the great whore' by revelations. is it any wonder after our last two elections.? Can it be any more evident than it is now? People call themselves Christians because they want to feel something. You can get anyone to do anything by evoking emotions. That's my take on it anyway. Last edited by skysidhe; 07-03-2006 at 12:10 PM.

07-03-2006, 12:47 PM	#14
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Jesus overturned the corrupt system of his time, and we replaced it with a new corrupt system, with his name on it. No matter how many Jesus' show up to correct things, they turn sour again. If Jesus showed up today, he would smash "Christianity" and replace it with something new - and then this new thing would be twisted and exploited in just the same way. Read what you want to read, don't let anybody tell you how to understand it, and don't call yourself anything. Joining special clubs won't benefit you in any way other than the completely selfish, superficial, and worldly way that the plumber with a fish on his van hopes to get more business. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

07-03-2006, 12:46 PM	#13
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	I know that was a sucky post. I can't even make sense out of it. The idea is just so big and with a tiny vessel of a brain like mine to contain it. The church is all about oppression is all I wanted to say. lol

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