Nuclear Iran is now the world's #1 problem

[tw]

Originally Posted by Jebediah

I certainly have to disagree with that. Human bungling being what it is I don't trust ANYBODY with TEH BOMB. Not the US, not Iran, not North Korea.

Then we apply realities to that principle. An Iran that is not threatened would then have a strong reform movement that was opposed to nuclear bombs. An India that did not have a friend in George Jr then would not have uranium to build more bombs. A Pakistan that was treated accordingly would be punished - not rewarded - for proliferating nuclear bomb technology throughout the world. A Turkey would not have so much to fear - and not start a nuclear program. And a North Korea that once negotiated away their nuclear program in exchange for short term economic assistance and long term relationships with the world has now been forced back into a nuclear program - complete with proof solid that their extremists were right: that the world wants to destroy N Korea.

What could have been a safer world as a result of containment has now been converted into a world where more countries must now want and need nuclear weapons. This traceable to a George Jr administration who suddenly made the world unstable by advocating preemption, undermining reform and promoting extremists in those 'enemy' countries (the axis of evil speech), and even intentionally undermining what makes the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty work.

Want to make the world more nuclear? Do what George Jr has done - from his 'axis of evil' to even giving India desperately needed uranium with no strings attached.

[Undertoad]

Right, the ones building the weapons and supporting the terror aren't seeking a broader conflict, but trying to prevent it IS seeking a broader conflict because it's so damn provocative!

Because calling something a "concern" or going to the UN Security Council is so threatening! But calling for the destruction of Israel, well that's just what nations do.

Because proliferation started the moment Bush was elected! And terrorism is not to be fought until it occurs!

/sarcasm out of control

[djacq75]

About the only positive thing you can say about war is that it enables the filthy gung-ho rednecks of all nations to kill each other off and thereby improve the species.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Problem is the "filthy gung-ho rednecks" don't go. They send wide-eyed youth that forced the pay the price.

[wolf]

I admitted Homer.

wolf: What do you do for a living?

Homer: I work the night shift.

wolf: no, I meant what's your job, what do you do on the night shift?

Homer: I work the night shift.

Several hours later, speaking to Marge ...

wolf: So, your husband wasn't able to answer some of my questions. What is it that he does for a living?

Marge: He's a radiation prevention specialist.

wolf: What?! (I know I didn't really just hear that correctly. She has to have said something else. That's the only possible explanation.)

Marge: He's in charge of the fuel floor.

wolf: You mean at the ...

Marge: Yes.

We're doomed.

[Trilby]

*tenting fingers with evil smile*

Ex-hcellent!

[richlevy]

Do Iodine tablets come in chewable flavors?

[xoxoxoBruce]

For 20 years, ze Nuke makes millions of kilowatts. Zen, two lettle oopsis, just two, and zay call Nuke ze big cork soaker. Sacre blu.

[Kitsune]

How do you provoke the west? Try shaing the love.

"The Islamic Republic of Iran is prepared to transfer the experience, knowledge and technology of its scientists," said the supreme religious leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

No end to the fun on this one, it seems.

[jaguar]

I know if I was the leader of Iran I'd have been working on a bomb post-haste. Nothing else stops the US invading you (hello, DPRK) when you're arbitrarily designated 'evil' by the same country that overthrew your only ever democratic leader (operation Ajax mean anything to anyone?) and plotted to overthrow your replacement for the brutal autocrat they put in power.

It's also clear it doesn't make much difference whether you're guilty or not, truth, justice & soverignty have no place in US foreign policy. So you may as well go ahead and nuke up.

I don't like that they have it.
But, I don't like that Pakistan has them either... I don't like that anyone has them actually.
Hardly the #1 problem.
World hunger, poverty, disease... take your pick.
#1 problem for the rich who could care less about the have-nots perhaps.

[Jordon]

It won"t be necesary to nuke Tehran. We have plenty of conventional weapons that will do the trick just fine. It's sad to see Russia jumping in to side with Iran, like that's going to help them at all.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Jordon

It's sad to see Russia jumping in to side with Iran, like that's going to help them at all.

I think Russia was offering to enrich the uranium for Iran so that it could be used for power generation. That way, the world would know for sure that the product Iran was getting could not be used for weapons.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

I think Russia was offering to enrich the uranium for Iran so that it could be used for power generation. That way, the world would know for sure that the product Iran was getting could not be used for weapons.

The U.S. was suppose to be buying all that from Russia.'INSTEAD' but NOOO nobody would listen to Gore.


See this is what happens when people listen to spin and the religious right. We can't save all those unborn fetus's from the threat of nulear ingagement. We should have been thinking of the living first.

[tw]

Originally Posted by kitsune

I think Russia was offering to enrich the uranium for Iran so that it could be used for power generation. That way, the world would know for sure that the product Iran was getting could not be used for weapons.

Originally Posted by skysidhe

The U.S. was suppose to be buying all that from Russia.'INSTEAD' but NOOO nobody would listen to Gore.

Details to these stories go far beyond what is implied here.

First, uranium for a nuclear power station is sufficiently enriched to make a bomb. Even so called 'waste' can be bomb grade material. Yucca Mountain not being operational means potentially weapons grade 'waste' is sitting in pools next to all American nuclear power plants.

Current nuclear power plants are so inefficient as to use less than 5% of energy in that fuel. But worse, such plants required highly enriched uranium (HEU). There was an ongoing program to convert nuclear power plants all over the world to use LEU - less enriched uranium. Most of these unconverted power plants are in the old USSR. However, when George Jr began undermining relations with Russia, the program to perform these conversions halted.

HEU sufficient for nuclear power plants can make a Hiroshima bomb. Furthermore, it can be further enriched to be better bomb grade material. Can HEU fuel be made difficult to further enrich? I am not sure. Can further enriching be made detectable? If uranium enrichment is performed in Russia, then details such as amounts and other 'detectable' features can be known and used. One reason why uranium enrichment in Russia is desirable: makes further enrichment or diverting of uranium to bombs difficult to hide.

Return same principles used by Kennedy to avoid world wide nuclear destruction. But what does he see? What is he being told? What is his perspective?

One of Russia's best neighbors has been Iran. Indeed, Iran was little threat to Russia or other Iranian neighbors. What does Russia fear most - and for good reason? Pakistan. Pakistan had been one of if not the most destabilizing force in that region. Iran, on the other hand, has been very cooperative and very stabilizing to that region. Russia most appreciates that. Russia's one fear is that the entire region - especially due to American allies Israel and Pakistan - has become so unstable that all powers - even Turkey - need nuclear weapons.

Where are all those high explosives that disappeared from Iraq (because US forces did not guard them); explosive perfect for making bombs? Where are all those machine tools necessary for manufacturing bombs that completely dissappeared from an industrial complex while US forces moved on to Baghdad? These facilities were tagged and known to UN inspectors - and yet the US did not have sufficient forces to protect them? So where did all that material go? At least some metals from those facilities were discovered in a dump in the Netherlands. Where did all this bomb making material disappear to while not guarded by invading American forces? Unanswered questions that would make Russia nervous.

Best that Russia can do is keep accounting of what Iran is doing - ie process that fuel in Russia and build the Iranian nuclear reactor. Russia's proposals may have been some of the most stabilizing especially given that the United States has so destabilized the region using pre-emption, offering uranium to India without any strings, and not condemning Pakistan for proliferating nuclear technology.

Don't forget China's position. Pakistan (and India) both make China nervous. China also does not appreciate these instabilities created by US actions. It left me wondering why the President of China made that visit to the White House even without honors such as a black tie dinner. I suspect the Chinese leader needed to gauge George Jr because China is getting nervous about south central Asia, American trade, a dollar that is too high combined (while Americans instead demand Chinese currency to increase) and a few other hardening problems. From the perspective of this discussion, China also worries about instability created by United States actions including uranium to India without signing the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty and without other restrictions such as inspections of their fast breeder project.

Both Russia and China need stability in South Asia where nuclear proliferation will only get worse given current political positions. Russia is doing what it can especially since Russia has no reason to trust US intentions. Any trust Russia has with the US was quashed by George Jr which is why Russia would limit any future nuclear cooperation with the United States.

If Russia builds Iranian reactors, would they be LEU type? Maybe. Just another way to stabilize the region. But without many of the above details, no one can make any assumptions as to Russia's (or China's) intents. Start by asking what their perspective is. The perspective in both Russia and China should be obvious. America is creating instability everywhere from Turkey to India; from the Indian Ocean to the K'stan nations (where American assets recently were thrown out of another country).

I cannot be sure of what Russia's nor China's intents are. But once a perspective is international, then their actions both imply stability in a region that appears to be getting ripe for nuclear war!

Nuclear war! a concept so adverse that explanation points are necessary. Both China and Russia appreciate that danger. Question is whether their actions might or even can avert such war!