Public Schools Pay Teachers 50% Above Market, Heritage Analysis Finds

[BigV]

LINK

Far from being underpaid, the typical public-school teacher makes out very well indeed, according to a new report from The Heritage Foundation’s Center for Data Analysis.

“Assessing the Compensation of Public-School Teachers” concludes that, while some may well be underpaid, the typical public school teacher makes about $1.52 for every dollar made by a private-sector employee with similar skills.

...

That’s the equivalent of a $120 billion overpayment charged to taxpayers each year.

What do you folks think about this?

[Lamplighter]

I've not read the link, yet, but my first reaction is "weasel words".

...the typical public school teacher makes about $1.52
for every dollar made by a private-sector employee with similar skills.

"With similar skills" says absolutely nothing about workloads, hours, or "clientele".

Teaching in the public schools is not equivalent to "the private sector"
It's just worth more.

[SamIam]

Not much. Heritage Foundation falls far short of an unbiased source.

They paid for and did their "research" all by their little selves. The resulting article was long on rhetoric and short on statistically valid numbers.

I also watched their little video comparing education to landscaping in a gated community. Wait. What?

So, what else do you have for us?

[infinite monkey]

Poppycock, is what it is.

[Happy Monkey]

What market? It seems like they're making the "market" the group of people with the same "cognitive ability" as teachers, without taking into account the actual job.

[Lamplighter]

I'm sorry BigV, but I can't/I refuse to go on thru the link ("News Release") and the "Report", itself.
This is internal to the Heritage Foundation, with authors from HF
staff.
Both (non-peer reviewed) articles are filled with HF assumptions and biases.

When I read the "News Release" and then the Executive Summary of the "Report",
I first thought there was an error in the links.
To wit: compare the "News" with the first paragraphs of the HF Report.

(Underlining is mine)

The teaching profession is crucial to America’s society and economy,
but public-school teachers should receive compensation that
is neither higher nor lower than market rates.

Do teachers currently receive the proper level of compensation?
Standard analytical approaches to this question compare teacher salaries
to the salaries of similarly educated and experienced private-sector workers,
and then add the value of employer contributions toward fringe benefits.
These simple comparisons would indicate that public-school teachers are under-compensated.
However, comparing teachers to non-teachers presents
special challenges not accounted for in the existing literature.

First, formal educational attainment, such as a degree acquired or years of education completed,
is not a good proxy for the earnings potential of school teachers.
Public-school teachers earn less in wages on average than non-teachers
with the same level of education,
but teacher skills generally lag behind those of other workers with similar “paper” qualifications.
<SNIP>

My reaction is "HF Garbage In/Garbage Out"

[glatt]

The public school teachers in my town are paid pretty damn well. I would not say they are underpaid. They have a hard job, and I wouldn't want it, but they are paid well. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me right now, but they are paid more than the average household in the USA. Probably close to 50% more. Your town may be different.

Edit: OK, instead of relying on my faulty memory, I looked it up. Average teacher salary here is $69,820. Draw your own conclusions.

[Clodfobble]

Private school teachers can be paid less than public school teachers because everyone would rather be a private school teacher. It's a self-selected group of kids that tends to be much easier to deal with than your average lower-income neighborhood thugs. If you privatized the poor public schools, you'd still have to pay those teachers more to attract them to the job.

[tw]

I cite this again because everyone in the Cellar should have learned from this history. Saddam did not have WMDs because supporting facts and numbers did not exist. Any claim made without supporting hard facts and numbers is best called bogus. And that is being deplorably polite.

Anything from the Heritage Foundation is immediately taken with plenty of salt. Because the Heritage Foundation is created to promote a political agenda while masquerading as a think tank. Halloween does not justify it.

Let's view this Heritage report. Where are reams of facts and numbers to support their conclusions? Extremists neither need nor want supporting facts. Extremists want to be told what to believe. The Heritage Foundation’s purpose. Its report provides speculated conclusions. Declares them as truth. And orders us to "trust them". Exact same logic also proved Saddam's WMDs. Or did we again forget history?

Remember the 1400 Bible? Something that only the elite were permitted to read. We were too inferior. Were not permitted to read it let alone learn what the Bible was really saying. The elite told us in 1400 what we should believe. An 'evil' Guttenberg had the audacity to publish a Bible in a language we might understand. We are supposed to believe only what we are told to believe.

We have no right to demand facts that created the Heritage's conclusions? We should only believe what we were told to believe and therefore sent almost 5000 American soldiers to a useless death? Same wacko extremist leaders now tell us that teachers are overpaid. We must believe it because the Heritage Foundation says it is true.

I said the president was a liar because numbers for Saddam's WMDs did not exist. All here know how contentious a minority's opinion was because facts with numbers were missing. Moderates and other patriots learn nothing when supporting facts are withheld. Withholding facts means that report is only to tell wacko extremists what to think.

The report provides zero useful facts for any moderate. Another damning reason why that report is politely called wasted bandwidth.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by glatt

The public school teachers in my town are paid pretty damn well. I would not say they are underpaid. They have a hard job, and I wouldn't want it, but they are paid well. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me right now, but they are paid more than the average household in the USA. Probably close to 50% more. Your town may be different.

Edit: OK, instead of relying on my faulty memory, I looked it up. Average teacher salary here is $69,820. Draw your own conclusions.

I was curious about such a high salary and found this. It seems that the DC area has implemented a fairly revolutionary program to reward and foster good teaching. Alas, the rest of the nation lags far behind. Starting pay for a teacher in New York is $45,000/year.

[BigV]

ok, ok... I think I know what you think now.

I think like you do, that teachers are not overpaid by a factor of fifty percent. I think that's baloney. I also agree that the Heritage Foundation is the mouthpiece of conservative/regressive/evil Dark Side :darth: interests. I have scanned the actual report, and the citations. I think they've cherry picked the data sources to exaggerate the conclusion they'd already reached. I believe the desired result was to plant the seed for a future talking point about how those darn teachers, bloated government teat suckers that they are, they're the friend of our enemy (Obama) and therefore they are your enemy. Arm yourself accordingly. But I digress.

I have significant first hand experience with teachers and their salaries. I was married to one for years, and I've dated several. I have a few in my family and extended family. None of these fine people were living fifty percent more lavishly than the non teachers in the same local population, not by a long shot.

Furthermore, all the teachers I've known work a lot of hours outside the classroom. Plenty of that work involves spending their own money on stuff for the kids in the classroom. I didn't see that factored into any of the calculations in the report under discussion. I'd say a round figure would be 25 to 50 percent of the time in class was spent working outside of class, grading papers, preparing lessons, etc. This is *NOT* a job where you clock in and clock out. Though, there may well be teachers who do that, those are likely the ones that are railed against as poor teachers.

Teachers in Washington have been given pay cuts in the last several budget recalculations. It's sad.

[Pete Zicato]

I dunno about high school, but I can tell you that public school grade teachers around here make ~50k/year with a masters degree. ~30k at private schools. What's an MBA make these days?

When Mrs. Z was working at the Catholic school, we figured it up and she was making less than minimum wage when figured dollars/hr.

I haven't even looked at the report, but it must be flawed.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Pete Zicato

What's an MBA make these days?

As much as he can get away with which means the sky's the limit.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Pete Zicato

but I can tell you that public school grade teachers around here make ~50k/year with a masters degree. ~30k at private schools.

Whether teachers are overpaid is speculation or a hypothesis tempered by significant examples. But Heritage Foundation did what was necessary to make honest or informed discussion impossible. Promoting the same hate and misinformation that Limbaugh uses. Whether teachers are overpaid or not might be discussed. But only after we first eliminate these outright lies and unsubstantiated conclusions intended only to subvert knowledge and intelligent conclusions.

This Heritage Foundation paper demonstrates what extremists do. Invent bogeyman (ie teachers) to promote dissention and their political agenda.

Pete Zicato provided more useful information in one sentence than the Heritage Foundation said in an entire paper. That (and not teacher pay) is, by far, more relevant. Because it says why so many wackos are attacking teacher's pay for political glory.

First year salary plus compensation for an MBA as reported by the Graduate Management Admission Council for different career fields in 2006:
Health Care: $111,477
Finance: $103,122
Consulting: $101,736
Energy/Utilities: $100,263
High Tech: $98,621
Manufacturing: $98,417
Products/Services: $94,558
Non-Profit/Government: $73,125

How many Christmas bonuses are paid to teachers?

$45,000 in NYC is poverty. Was that NY State or Manhattan?


Why did the Heritage Foundation forget to include these numbers? They are not preaching to people educated by teachers. They are preaching to those educated by Limbaugh and a political agenda. Which one teaches facts? And which one teaches hate?

Since the Heritage Foundation has decided to promote their hate as knowledge, then what did Sarah Palin, Eric Cantor, and Ann Coulter say about this?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Locally