Schools of thought/perspective

Undertoad · 08-16-2007, 08:49 PM

There are approximately
6,602,224,175

people on this big blue marble.

Figure that a bunch of them are not cognizant enough to recognize anyone, except maybe mom and/or dad.... let's round to six billion.

Each of us has a unique experience in our memories. Each of our brains are unique. The consciousness that makes us special, has 6 billion fingerprints out there. No two are alike.

We were born, we had experiences; we grew, we developed relationships, we were taught by parents, we were taught things in school, we had family traditions that went back as far as anyone could remember. We shared what we knew. We shared how we felt about it.

Most of us can trace our genetic background to some similar place... xoB sent off for the kit that can tell you where your vast ancestors came from. For the most part, we share enough genetics that all humans have the same basic capacity to learn. You may think you come from Europe, or Asia, or Africa, wherever... we all have the basic capacity to learn and be unique human beings.

Over time, the human race has developed many tools which allow it to share information. At first, the trick was to publish the information in some form of writing. This allowed information to survive beyond the tales and biases of one or two generations. This allowed information to be collected.

Since then, the sharing of information has led to the progress of mankind. Each change in how we share information has been the front of huge leaps in progress. The invention of paper. The invention of the printing press. Telegraph. Telephony. Radio. Television.

The INTARWEBS

...which comes to where we are now, in 2007; in a remarkable exercise, we have presented each of the 6 Billion minds on the planet, if they are in reach of an Internet cafe, with equal access to pretty much all the facts we commonly know. OK, not all of them have access. But it's a new level we have come to, a vast and fascinating exercise.

To my great delight, it spreads to the Cellar; a place that started as only accessible to one city, is now accessible to at least the entire English-speaking world.

And yet we find ourselves in deep, deep disagreement. We are, in many circles, as separate as we might ever find ourselves. We develop websites for those who believe as we do, and where we can say the worst possible things about the people who believe other things!

How can this be?

(ed. note. probably part one of x.)

lumberjim · 08-16-2007, 09:18 PM

more to come?

.... so i shouldn't say something really rude and innapropriate about you right here then?

DanaC · 08-16-2007, 09:19 PM

*chokes on beer*

xoxoxoBruce · 08-16-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

And yet we find ourselves in deep, deep disagreement. We are, in many circles, as separate as we might ever find ourselves.

If I don't agree with everything the guy across the street says, why on Earth would anyone expect me to agree with everything someone across the state/country/ocean says?

We've had people leave the Cellar, most we don't even know about, because they were offended by someone (probably me) here. Their loss.

yesman065 · 08-16-2007, 09:40 PM

Perhaps the impersonal nature of the internet affords one the opportunity to express or vent that disagreement without fear of real life repercussions.

My question, if I may - is Why?

piercehawkeye45 · 08-16-2007, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065

Perhaps the impersonal nature of the internet affords one the opportunity to express or vent that disagreement without fear of real life repercussions.

If you ever read youtube comments, you can really get a perspective of how many people talk shit and you know that majority of them can't back what they say up.

Quote:

My question, if I may - is Why?

A feeling of empowerment is my guess. Everyone on the internet is on equal footing and people get to say what they really think because of a lack of social pressure to say what is "politically or sociology correct" (I mean that in a much wider sense than what it is usually used). It also allows you to say something without a fear of getting into a big fight with someone.

yesman065 · 08-16-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

If you ever read youtube comments, you can really get a perspective of how many people talk shit and you know that majority of them can't back what they say up.

I don't do youtube, except some of what is posted here, nor do I do myspace or facebook or any of that sort - just not interested. So I really cannot relate to your reference firsthand, although I can imagine.

piercehawkeye45 · 08-17-2007, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065

I don't do youtube, except some of what is posted here, nor do I do myspace or facebook or any of that sort - just not interested. So I really cannot relate to your reference firsthand, although I can imagine.

I don't post on youtube but I will read the comments every once in a while if I'm bored and need a laugh. It lowers your IQ a good ten notches or so but worth it in a depressing way.

skysidhe · 09-09-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

If you ever read youtube comments, you can really get a perspective of how many people talk shit and you know that majority of them can't back what they say up.

I never read youtube comments. I read the news and the cellar.
Am I missing anything in the middle of those two extremes?
Somehow I think not.

monster · 09-20-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065

Perhaps the impersonal nature of the internet affords one the opportunity to express or vent that disagreement without fear of real life repercussions.

Is this a bad thing? Well I guess yes, if the people on the receiving end take it as they would IRL. But isn't this -like most things- a two way street? If someone on teh interweb calls you a bad name, do you really feel as bad as you would if it were your neighbor shouting out of their window at you?

Maybe it's even a good thing. To be able to say what you feel rather than bite it back and smile that tight "fuck you, you inconsiderate neighbor" half smile.

Catharsis and all that.

yesman065 · 08-16-2007, 09:53 PM

Ahhh, freedom to do whatever one wants without having to listen to ones conscience. No repercussions no laws no penalties or fines... Without any rules or guidelines we are reverting, getting more primitive and caring less. That is not good. Actually, that really sux.

FWIW, thats primarily why I left a few months ago - I didn't like what was happening nor the way I was reacting/posting.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-16-2007, 09:57 PM

Well, in my case, wysiwyg. Much to my family's chagrin.

DanaC · 08-16-2007, 09:56 PM

What tends to happen in online communities is they become to a large extent self regulating. I found that to be the case in online gaming communities. There were very strict ideas about what was and was not acceptable behaviour. Then there'd be a bunch of rebels who'd just want annoy everyone, but generally, there would be a more or less accepted rule set.

piercehawkeye45 · 08-17-2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

What tends to happen in online communities is they become to a large extent self regulating.

I agree with this. Even though it is online there are still social norms on the closely knit forums (like the cellar) and even more on smaller forums and ones with a low average age (15 or so). It starts to almost become cultish on some of them.

Spexxvet · 08-17-2007, 08:12 AM

IMHO, UT, the mode of communication really hasn't altered group dynamics. We're still a clan of neanderthals, vying for Alpha status. Instead of physical fighting, we use words. When that doesn't work, either because we don't express information well or the receiver doesn't agree with our position, we take out our verbal clubs and beat each other with them. You'd think there'd be something between agreement and a dirty finger in the eye. Some people in this cafe manage it - but to many of us are Lumberjims, deep down inside, and it doesn't take much for him to rear his ugly head and start poking.:p

The above does not apply to the writer.

08-16-2007, 08:49 PM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Schools of thought/perspective There are approximately 6,602,224,175 people on this big blue marble. Figure that a bunch of them are not cognizant enough to recognize anyone, except maybe mom and/or dad.... let's round to six billion. Each of us has a unique experience in our memories. Each of our brains are unique. The consciousness that makes us special, has 6 billion fingerprints out there. No two are alike. We were born, we had experiences; we grew, we developed relationships, we were taught by parents, we were taught things in school, we had family traditions that went back as far as anyone could remember. We shared what we knew. We shared how we felt about it. Most of us can trace our genetic background to some similar place... xoB sent off for the kit that can tell you where your vast ancestors came from. For the most part, we share enough genetics that all humans have the same basic capacity to learn. You may think you come from Europe, or Asia, or Africa, wherever... we all have the basic capacity to learn and be unique human beings. Over time, the human race has developed many tools which allow it to share information. At first, the trick was to publish the information in some form of writing. This allowed information to survive beyond the tales and biases of one or two generations. This allowed information to be collected. Since then, the sharing of information has led to the progress of mankind. Each change in how we share information has been the front of huge leaps in progress. The invention of paper. The invention of the printing press. Telegraph. Telephony. Radio. Television. The INTARWEBS ...which comes to where we are now, in 2007; in a remarkable exercise, we have presented each of the 6 Billion minds on the planet, if they are in reach of an Internet cafe, with equal access to pretty much all the facts we commonly know. OK, not all of them have access. But it's a new level we have come to, a vast and fascinating exercise. To my great delight, it spreads to the Cellar; a place that started as only accessible to one city, is now accessible to at least the entire English-speaking world. And yet we find ourselves in deep, deep disagreement. We are, in many circles, as separate as we might ever find ourselves. We develop websites for those who believe as we do, and where we can say the worst possible things about the people who believe other things! How can this be? (ed. note. probably part one of x.)

08-16-2007, 09:18 PM	#2
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	more to come? .... so i shouldn't say something really rude and innapropriate about you right here then? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

08-16-2007, 09:57 PM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Well, in my case, wysiwyg. Much to my family's chagrin. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-17-2007, 08:12 AM	#15
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	IMHO, UT, the mode of communication really hasn't altered group dynamics. We're still a clan of neanderthals, vying for Alpha status. Instead of physical fighting, we use words. When that doesn't work, either because we don't express information well or the receiver doesn't agree with our position, we take out our verbal clubs and beat each other with them. You'd think there'd be something between agreement and a dirty finger in the eye. Some people in this cafe manage it - but to many of us are Lumberjims, deep down inside, and it doesn't take much for him to rear his ugly head and start poking.:p The above does not apply to the writer. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

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08-16-2007, 09:19 PM	#3
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	chokes on beer

08-16-2007, 09:40 PM	#5
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Perhaps the impersonal nature of the internet affords one the opportunity to express or vent that disagreement without fear of real life repercussions. My question, if I may - is Why?

08-16-2007, 09:53 PM	#11
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Ahhh, freedom to do whatever one wants without having to listen to ones conscience. No repercussions no laws no penalties or fines... Without any rules or guidelines we are reverting, getting more primitive and caring less. That is not good. Actually, that really sux. FWIW, thats primarily why I left a few months ago - I didn't like what was happening nor the way I was reacting/posting.

08-16-2007, 09:56 PM	#13
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	What tends to happen in online communities is they become to a large extent self regulating. I found that to be the case in online gaming communities. There were very strict ideas about what was and was not acceptable behaviour. Then there'd be a bunch of rebels who'd just want annoy everyone, but generally, there would be a more or less accepted rule set.

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