Times are tough all over

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And this differs from just picking up your Corprate HQ and transfering the whole thing lock-stock-and-barrel to Dubai how.

You should fully expect such action in the near future if McCain is elected.

Fixed that for ya.:p

Marquette, who declined comment Friday, said in the letter the company was unable to provide the full 60-day layoff notice required in the federal Worker Adjustment Retraining and Notification Act (WARN) because of "unforeseeable business circumstances."

The law says, if they don't give notice they have to pay them for it.

[classicman]

Legal battle to ensue....Great another way for the lawyers to get rich and the people who are rightfully deserving of the money to get even less.

[smoothmoniker]

Somebody asked earlier how we had positioned to avoid the crash.

My wife and I were about 80% invested contrary to the market, mostly in ETFs like SDS and SKF. There was a little bit of nervousness when short sales froze ... overall, a very good holding.

I think we're at or near the bottom, so I'm switching over to a more standard basket of stocks.

[Pie]

I got the benefit of the WARN act back in 2003 when OFS/Lucent laid everybody off...
Good times, good times.

[Trilby]

Wait.

A COOKIE company just went belly up?

O.
M.
G.

This is really bad.

[HungLikeJesus]

That's the way the cookie crumbles

[LabRat]

Originally Posted by glatt

My 401k is down 31% from one year ago, and I've been pumping money regularly into it for that entire year, so when you consider that, it's even worse.

I heard this morning on GMA that the average american has lost 19-25% of the value of their 401K investments. The overall market is down 40%, so as long as you were diversified, hopefully you haven't taken too bad a hit. (What to Do With Your Money
Mellody Hobson and John Bussey discuss the government's plan for the economy.)

I just got my last quarterly statement, and have lost 10% so far since the first of the year. I have been a bit conservative up to this point, but I am making a point to now shift my allocations so I am dumping a lot more into more and different stocks than I was till now. I am youngish, and figure I'm gonna buy while it's cheap and have time to wait for the market to recover.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by jinx

This is what happens here, with generation after generation being dependent on welfare. I didn't realize it was the norm in the UK.

Just to reiterate what Dana said - council housing was the standard option after the war for working class people. It was really appreciated because private landlords didn't labour under a fraction of the regulations they do now and renting was always a gamble. With the council as your landlord you were not going to be kicked out without notice, have your rent doubled or live in somewhere hazardous to your health.

Certainly, living in London - or on its outskirts - you had to have property in the family if you weren't renting.

My Grandad lived all his life after the war in council accommodation. Syill does - his bungalow is council owned, built specifically for pensioners as part of a new estate in the 1980s. He worked hard all his life in low paid, low skilled jobs and now has a decent standard of living as he was lead to believe all the years of paying in Social Security. He's better off than many single men his age living in their own houses. He won't leave anything behind for Mum or Uncle Jim, but again his generation and his class never expected to, and his children certainly don't expect it.

I grew up in a council house. My parents still live in it now, although they bought it in the 80s. Mum says she wishes she'd never bought it because the repairs and maintenance would still be paid for by the counil if they hadn't, and it probably needs rewiring. They are on a list for sheltered housing with a housing association (like Dana says, private associations fulfil this need now). As Dad gets older, they'd like to move somewhere where he doesn't have to worry about stairs, DIY or gardening.

It is a different culture here. We pay higher taxes, so hard working people will take help that's offered without the same stigma as in America. Yes, council housing did get a bad name in the end, but certainly things like child support and state pensions are seen as rights, not welfare.

[DanaC]

Quite a lot of my family on mum's side lived (and some still do) on those estates. When I hung out with my older cousins it was the on streets of Madam's Wood estate. Lot of my schoolmates were from estates in Bolton. It was just a fact of life.

My own situation was slightly different. My parents owned their own home from before I was born. When I was three we moved into a beautiful old stone cottage. The area wasn't brilliant, which is why we could afford it, but it was a lovely house and quite big. Quite a few of my friends' parents owned their own homes too (we were a very socially mixed school). Nonethless, every single one of us, including me was advised by teachers, parents, friends and anyone else with an interest to get our names on the housing list as soon as we were of age. Given that it could take years to get to the top of the list and be offered a property it was seen as sensible to get on there as quickly as possible. Better to have the offer of a house that you don't need than no offer of a house that you need :P

I've never owned a house and I am not on the housing list. I rent from private landlords. Like Sundae said, the regulations on the private rental sector are much stronger than they used to be. Though there's still a long way to go and slum landlords are not yet a thing of the past. I see no reason for me to own a house. I don't know where I am going to be at in five years time. I have recognised over the years my limitations and proclivities; I am not motivated by earnings and ownership. If I find myself in a stable setting at some point that allows for property ownership I may consider it.

As a single woman with absolutely no DIY knowhow nor indeed a desire to acquire such, being able to phone the landlord when the boiler breaks down, or the lock on the front door starts sticking, is a definate plus.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by SG

It is a different culture here. We pay higher taxes, so hard working people will take help that's offered without the same stigma as in America. Yes, council housing did get a bad name in the end, but certainly things like child support and state pensions are seen as rights, not welfare.

If you're all happy with the system you've got in place, well I think think it's fantastic.... although I wonder if so many hard working people would need help from social programs, paid for by taxes, if their taxes weren't so high. The hoops you have to jump thru to get the help have to cost a percentage of those taxes eh, making it more expensive than if you'd kept your money and bought what you needed yourself?

Also, it seems like the word welfare is a hot button of sorts... why is welfare bad if social programs are good?

Originally Posted by Dana

As a single woman with absolutely no DIY knowhow nor indeed a desire to acquire such, being able to phone the landlord when the boiler breaks down, or the lock on the front door starts sticking, is a definate plus.

I hear what you're saying but.... why is it easier to call the landlord than calling the boiler repair man yourself? Or is it the money.... you think you're saving on repairs by renting? Does real estate not appreciate over there? Of course everything is afu right now and I have no idea what our current house is worth compared to what we paid for it (especially since its listed as 2 seperate properties on those house-value websites)..... but our first house, purchased when I was 23, increased in value about $10K per year that we owned it. That's a lot of boiler repairs..... and potentially a lot of money put away for retirement.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Brianna

Wait.

A COOKIE company just went belly up?

O.
M.
G.

This is really bad.

Not going completely belly up, just moving everything to it's existing plant in Ontario. At a guess I'd say that they'll probably open up a plant in Mexico and start making NAFTA cookies. Notice that the company is filing in Delaware, even though they do not have a plant or HQ there. This is because Delaware is to corporations what Liberia is to rusting oil tankers, a 'flag of convenience'. By the time they're finished, the workers will end up owing the company back pay.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Originally Posted by TheMercenary
And this differs from just picking up your Corprate HQ and transfering the whole thing lock-stock-and-barrel to Dubai how.

You should fully expect such action in the near future if Obama is elected is elected.

Fixed that for ya.:p

[Cicero]

"but certainly things like child support and state pensions are seen as rights, not welfare."

Awesome SG. Very well put....I have some ideas for a non-profit but the first primary mission would be to neutralize the stigmas associated with program, and not rub it down and soak it in pity;marginalization. Let people have some dignity, and utilize a non-profit. As a right not welfare. This means that the acquisition of state and city grants would not be solely on their terms to disparage the interested.

[HungLikeJesus]

It sounds like those cookie people are getting a crumby deal.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Cicero

"but certainly things like child support and state pensions are seen as rights, not welfare."

Awesome SG. Very well put....I have some ideas for a non-profit but the first primary mission would be to neutralize the stigmas associated with program, and not rub it down and soak it in pity;marginalization. Let people have some dignity, and utilize a non-profit. As a right not welfare. This means that the acquisition of state and city grants would not be solely on their terms to disparage the interested.

Child support should come from the penis that supplied the sperm, not form the state that had nothing to do with the sexual act.