Seems somebody at the Miami Herald wants you dead - Page 9

Spexxvet · 11-01-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Unfortunately there's no line item veto on taxes. But my payment for law enforcement is not coerced...

My payment for a war in Iraq is...

Aliantha · 10-30-2006, 07:51 PM

If you live in a society where you pay taxes which go towards paying for other peoples social security for instance, you're a collectivist because something is being taken from you by the state for the benefit of other members of the society.

Whether you like it or not Maggie, you're a collectivist just like the rest of us.

Aliantha · 10-30-2006, 07:55 PM

'When someone steals your stuff and laughs that it's been "reappropriated", that's pretty cooercive.'

I wouldn't say there's anything coercive about it at all.

Obviously you're again refering to the quote I've asked you about, and since I've already asked once where it was from, I don't see much point in asking again. Therefor, if you want to continue to refer to the same point to support your argument, you're not going to be making much sense from here on in.

Aliantha · 10-30-2006, 07:58 PM

Oh, I found it. I didn't realize you'd only taken a portion of the whole quote to support your argument.

Nothing further needs to be said since I'm pretty sure anyone else could have seen the humour in the post in its entirety. Even UG managed it.

Flint · 10-31-2006, 01:44 PM

What's next? Dangling participles? Split infinitives? :::afraid to post:::

Aliantha · 10-31-2006, 09:58 PM

Right! The right is RIGHT and the left isn't right. It's just wrong. So don't go left, go right before you forget what's right and what's not.

Urbane Guerrilla · 11-01-2006, 07:05 PM

Ali, there is many a true word spoken in ... irony.

Hippikos · 11-02-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Ali, there is many a true word spoken in ... irony.

Like in goldy or bronzy, but then made of iron?

Aliantha · 11-01-2006, 07:12 PM

Oh UG...you must have misunderstood. I was taking the piss out of you and your comrades.

WabUfvot5 · 11-03-2006, 04:31 AM

How come the people who are the staunchest defenders of guns are the ones I fear having guns the most?

MaggieL · 11-03-2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebediah

How come the people who are the staunchest defenders of guns are the ones I fear having guns the most?

Because hoplophobia literally means "fear of guns".

Urbane Guerrilla · 11-03-2006, 05:15 PM

Jeb, I ain't shot you yet. And we live in the same state. Have for years. Hell, I was born in the Monterey area. WTF you scared of, ignorance boy? Seems there's too much you don't know. Do you truly know how to rightly handle a gun?

11-03-2006, 07:20 PM

Seriously.... I'm not a bad guy. When I was head of security people came to our club, we tripled in attendance, because I made sure no one was castled even when we had to carry them out. When people pushed me I always told them "yes...you can beat me up, I am sure of it. Let me buy you a beer and let's break this up instead of all these other bouncers carrying you out, ok?"
I don't like conflict or guns... as I stated earlier, I have not messed with mine in years. I think of them as a necessary evil... but necessary none the less.
I worry that my posts on this subject have been very prejudicial as far as how the Cellar views me.
It is truly the only thing that I am very conservative about. Though my definition of liberal and conservative are much older than today's. I do not think of a neo-con as a conservative. A conservative wants less government, taxes and believes in state's rights. I am very conservative in that sense... but very liberal when it comes to today's definition in a lot of ways. I believe pot should be legal, we should have state health care as well as private, Social Security and welfare should not be attached in any way (if you did not pay into it you don't get any).... bla, bla, bla... hell, some things sound very conservative like my fiscal side and others make me very liberal. I think the National Forests should NEVER be touched other than prescribed burns... pristine woodland, period. If you pollute, you pay for ALL of it to be cleaned-up, period.
But, at the same time, as long as you are not harming your neighbor or the environment... your home is your castle and ALL the Bill of Rights must be protected at all costs.
Illegal search and seizure, warrantless searches and that type of thing are grounds for revolution IMO, real action to let those in power know that it will NEVER be tolerated.
Freedom of speech and the press is/should be actual and pure.
Religion and the State should NEVER have ANYTHING to do with each other under ANY circumstances.
So when people ask me if I am "liberal" or "conservative"... I just don't know.

theirontower · 11-03-2006, 08:37 PM

Werent there some studies done in the 70s or 80s by KGB or some other Russian organization stating that while they felt they could handle the US military if they wanted to attack America, the population was to well armed to hold the territory they could take?

I don't know if having a gun or not having a gun makes a difference when it comes to crime, Ive never been a criminal or the victim of a violent or gun based crime myself. But from a criminals perspective wouldn't the throught process between "Should I" and "I will" be a bit longer and more involved if the threat of return violence is immediate?

IE if as a criminal I was looking for a place to setup shop for say, burglery, would I consider a place like Texas where its more likely Ill run into an armed citizen willing to fight, or would I rather go somewhere its not as likely? Just the fact that they would have to walk that line of thought through would hopefully persaude a few of them its not worth it.

One thing I noticed in the thread, just as an FYI, as a national champion debater, when your opponent sinks to verbal attacks and name calling, you've won. Most people with any brain will stop paying attention to someone who stoops to that, so beware your own arrogance. Be open the to the thought process's and idea's of others.

" The arousing of prejudice, pity, anger, and similar emotions has nothing to do with the essential facts, but is merely a personal appeal to the man who is judging the case. Consequently if the rules for trials which are now laid down some states-especially in well-governed states-were applied everywhere, such people would have nothing to say. All men, no doubt, think that the laws should prescribe such rules, but some, as in the court of Areopagus, give practical effect to their thoughts and forbid talk about non-essentials. This is sound law and custom. It is not right to pervert the judge by moving him to anger or envy or pity-one might as well warp a carpenter's rule before using it." Aristotle's Rhetoric

How about some reference to Logical Fallacies, which abound in this thread.

Steve

theirontower · 11-03-2006, 08:41 PM

"Most of our energy goes into upholding our importance...

If we were capable of losing some of that importance, two extraordinary things would happen to us. One, we would free our energy from trying to maintain the illusory idea of our grandeur; and two, we would provide ourselves with enough energy to...catch a glimpse of the actual grandeur of the universe." Carlos Castaneda

--to me this is the answer to the koan about a tree falling in the woods with no one around. The sheer arrogance of the question points to the answer--

"Self-righteous morality is jealousy with a halo" HG Wells

"Self righteousness is a mask for hypocrisy and self importance." Carlos Castaneda

10-30-2006, 07:51 PM	#2
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	If you live in a society where you pay taxes which go towards paying for other peoples social security for instance, you're a collectivist because something is being taken from you by the state for the benefit of other members of the society. Whether you like it or not Maggie, you're a collectivist just like the rest of us. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-30-2006, 07:55 PM	#3
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	'When someone steals your stuff and laughs that it's been "reappropriated", that's pretty cooercive.' I wouldn't say there's anything coercive about it at all. Obviously you're again refering to the quote I've asked you about, and since I've already asked once where it was from, I don't see much point in asking again. Therefor, if you want to continue to refer to the same point to support your argument, you're not going to be making much sense from here on in. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-30-2006, 07:58 PM	#4
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Oh, I found it. I didn't realize you'd only taken a portion of the whole quote to support your argument. Nothing further needs to be said since I'm pretty sure anyone else could have seen the humour in the post in its entirety. Even UG managed it. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-31-2006, 01:44 PM	#5
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	What's next? Dangling participles? Split infinitives? :::afraid to post::: __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

10-31-2006, 09:58 PM	#6
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Right! The right is RIGHT and the left isn't right. It's just wrong. So don't go left, go right before you forget what's right and what's not. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-01-2006, 07:05 PM	#7
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Ali, there is many a true word spoken in ... irony. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

11-01-2006, 07:12 PM	#9
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Oh UG...you must have misunderstood. I was taking the piss out of you and your comrades. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-03-2006, 04:31 AM	#10
WabUfvot5 Operations Operative Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 634	How come the people who are the staunchest defenders of guns are the ones I fear having guns the most?

11-03-2006, 05:15 PM	#12
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Jeb, I ain't shot you yet. And we live in the same state. Have for years. Hell, I was born in the Monterey area. WTF you scared of, ignorance boy? Seems there's too much you don't know. Do you truly know how to rightly handle a gun? __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

11-03-2006, 07:20 PM	#13
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Seriously.... I'm not a bad guy. When I was head of security people came to our club, we tripled in attendance, because I made sure no one was castled even when we had to carry them out. When people pushed me I always told them "yes...you can beat me up, I am sure of it. Let me buy you a beer and let's break this up instead of all these other bouncers carrying you out, ok?" I don't like conflict or guns... as I stated earlier, I have not messed with mine in years. I think of them as a necessary evil... but necessary none the less. I worry that my posts on this subject have been very prejudicial as far as how the Cellar views me. It is truly the only thing that I am very conservative about. Though my definition of liberal and conservative are much older than today's. I do not think of a neo-con as a conservative. A conservative wants less government, taxes and believes in state's rights. I am very conservative in that sense... but very liberal when it comes to today's definition in a lot of ways. I believe pot should be legal, we should have state health care as well as private, Social Security and welfare should not be attached in any way (if you did not pay into it you don't get any).... bla, bla, bla... hell, some things sound very conservative like my fiscal side and others make me very liberal. I think the National Forests should NEVER be touched other than prescribed burns... pristine woodland, period. If you pollute, you pay for ALL of it to be cleaned-up, period. But, at the same time, as long as you are not harming your neighbor or the environment... your home is your castle and ALL the Bill of Rights must be protected at all costs. Illegal search and seizure, warrantless searches and that type of thing are grounds for revolution IMO, real action to let those in power know that it will NEVER be tolerated. Freedom of speech and the press is/should be actual and pure. Religion and the State should NEVER have ANYTHING to do with each other under ANY circumstances. So when people ask me if I am "liberal" or "conservative"... I just don't know. Last edited by rkzenrage; 11-03-2006 at 07:24 PM.

11-03-2006, 08:37 PM	#14
theirontower Fellow-Commoner Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 10	Werent there some studies done in the 70s or 80s by KGB or some other Russian organization stating that while they felt they could handle the US military if they wanted to attack America, the population was to well armed to hold the territory they could take? I don't know if having a gun or not having a gun makes a difference when it comes to crime, Ive never been a criminal or the victim of a violent or gun based crime myself. But from a criminals perspective wouldn't the throught process between "Should I" and "I will" be a bit longer and more involved if the threat of return violence is immediate? IE if as a criminal I was looking for a place to setup shop for say, burglery, would I consider a place like Texas where its more likely Ill run into an armed citizen willing to fight, or would I rather go somewhere its not as likely? Just the fact that they would have to walk that line of thought through would hopefully persaude a few of them its not worth it. One thing I noticed in the thread, just as an FYI, as a national champion debater, when your opponent sinks to verbal attacks and name calling, you've won. Most people with any brain will stop paying attention to someone who stoops to that, so beware your own arrogance. Be open the to the thought process's and idea's of others. " The arousing of prejudice, pity, anger, and similar emotions has nothing to do with the essential facts, but is merely a personal appeal to the man who is judging the case. Consequently if the rules for trials which are now laid down some states-especially in well-governed states-were applied everywhere, such people would have nothing to say. All men, no doubt, think that the laws should prescribe such rules, but some, as in the court of Areopagus, give practical effect to their thoughts and forbid talk about non-essentials. This is sound law and custom. It is not right to pervert the judge by moving him to anger or envy or pity-one might as well warp a carpenter's rule before using it." Aristotle's Rhetoric How about some reference to Logical Fallacies, which abound in this thread. Steve

11-03-2006, 08:41 PM	#15
theirontower Fellow-Commoner Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 10	"Most of our energy goes into upholding our importance... If we were capable of losing some of that importance, two extraordinary things would happen to us. One, we would free our energy from trying to maintain the illusory idea of our grandeur; and two, we would provide ourselves with enough energy to...catch a glimpse of the actual grandeur of the universe." Carlos Castaneda --to me this is the answer to the koan about a tree falling in the woods with no one around. The sheer arrogance of the question points to the answer-- "Self-righteous morality is jealousy with a halo" HG Wells "Self righteousness is a mask for hypocrisy and self importance." Carlos Castaneda

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