What does being a "Liberal" mean? (US)

[Griff]

Agreed.

On the surveillance state front.

Mr. Crow seems alternately astonished, angered and flattered by the government’s attention. “I’ve had times of intense paranoia,” he said, especially when he discovered that some trusted allies were actually spies.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Ibram

I agree. I think he's done a great job as president - but it could have been better, from my point of view. President Obama is actually MORE, not LESS, moderate than Candidate Obama.

That is what usually happens. During the election, candidates will try to appeal to their specific party base. Once they get elected, they will need to deal with members of the other party and interests that cross party lines.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by lookout123

snip--

F3, I had no idea you were such an optimist. I see a nation on the decline, not one still developing. I personally think we've gone past the tipping point of "the greater good" and we'll just keep sliding through "i gotta get mine".

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

Lookout, I'm no optimist. I was speaking merely theoretically.

Perhaps you two are not optimists. Perhaps you once were, I don't know. Clearly you both recognize that state of mind. I consider you a couple of the most rational, articulate, intelligent people I know (who are only coincidentally fellow dwellars). You are not optimists--ok. But I have a question for you.

What are you teaching your children? What do you tell them with your words and what do you show them with your actions? Defensive cynicism? Acquisitive greed? To move up by pushing others down?

Something else? I have paid attention to you over the years and I don't find these sentiments consistent with what I have seen you share about your parenting journey. Maybe you're not optimists, but I see hope in the next generation. This is what makes *me* an optimist--Dads like you.

[footfootfoot]

That sounds an awful lot like thinking would be involved in answering that question. So it may be a day or two for me to really come up with something sincere as opposed to snappy.

Go grab a few beverages and pull up a chair while I dust off the ol' brain cell and see if I can get it to spark.

[Fair&Balanced]

Today's episode of The Sean Hannity Show has been brought to you by the letter "L." The L stands for "liberal," boys and girls, which is what Sesame Street is trying to turn tykes into with its secret anti-family agenda.

Teaching diversity, resolving personal conflicts peacefully instead of fighting, encouraging gay boys to be prom queens (I missed this episode)....

[BigV]

I laughed out loud to watch Mr Hannity walk right over the woman's line at 4:00.

She says, "the secular humanist liberals believe that human nature is good, and conservatives do not".

Well, dear conservatives, is this really true, you believe human nature is not good?

[BigV]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

That sounds an awful lot like thinking would be involved in answering that question. So it may be a day or two for me to really come up with something sincere as opposed to snappy.

Go grab a few beverages and pull up a chair while I dust off the ol' brain cell and see if I can get it to spark.

I love to hear you think, so take your time. I've already made note of what I seen that you've done. I am interested to hear what your "sincere" response will be and how much distance there will be between those words and your actions to this point.

For the record, when I have to choose between believing one's actions *or* believing one's words, I almost always choose actions.

[infinite monkey]

Here's what's funny: I'm watching this crap on my phone...they're going for farce, right? But on my tv is Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Reason always wins, eventually. Don't blink, you might miss it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Ibram

I agree. I think he's done a great job as president - but it could have been better, from my point of view. President Obama is actually MORE, not LESS, moderate than Candidate Obama.

I'm thankful for that... the further my President is from either extreme, the better I like it.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

Today's episode of The Sean Hannity Show has been brought to you by the letter "L." The L stands for "liberal," boys and girls, which is what Sesame Street is trying to turn tykes into with its secret anti-family agenda.

Teaching diversity, resolving personal conflicts peacefully instead of fighting, encouraging gay boys to be prom queens (I missed this episode)....

"Yeah, I kind of want to take them out back and cap em". Even though this guy is talking about puppets, I kind of found it disturbing that no one called him on that statement.

I wonder what this guy thought of Davey and Goliath, I just find it funny that when a church espouses kindness, understanding, love, etc, conservatives don't say a word. If any kind of secular group says the same think, suddenly it's a 'liberal agenda'.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I'm thankful for that... the further my President is from either extreme, the better I like it.

Originally Posted by richlevy

"Yeah, I kind of want to take them out back and cap em". Even though this guy is talking about puppets, I kind of found it disturbing that no one called him on that statement.

I wonder what this guy thought of Davey and Goliath, I just find it funny that when a church espouses kindness, understanding, love, etc, conservatives don't say a word. If any kind of secular group says the same think, suddenly it's a 'liberal agenda'.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by BigV

Perhaps you two are not optimists. Perhaps you once were, I don't know. Clearly you both recognize that state of mind. I consider you a couple of the most rational, articulate, intelligent people I know (who are only coincidentally fellow dwellars). You are not optimists--ok. But I have a question for you.

What are you teaching your children? What do you tell them with your words and what do you show them with your actions? Defensive cynicism? Acquisitive greed? To move up by pushing others down?

Something else? I have paid attention to you over the years and I don't find these sentiments consistent with what I have seen you share about your parenting journey. Maybe you're not optimists, but I see hope in the next generation. This is what makes *me* an optimist--Dads like you.

I don't consider myself an optimist in any way shape or form. I think I'm a realist with a healthy dose of jaded cynicism.

What I try to teach my kids is as follows:
-Your life is your own, so make one you can be proud of
-Don't expect an organization to help you, that's what family and friends are for
-Help those around you as much as you can when they need it, part of real help is showing them how to do it themselves next time
-Shiny badges, nice suits, and perfect smiles aren't equivalent to good. Dirty clothes, surly attitudes, and obvious flaws aren't equivalent to bad.
-Don't ever live in fear, you can only die once and that is inevitable anyway so take appropriate risks while you can and live life to the full

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by BigV

Perhaps you two are not optimists. Perhaps you once were, I don't know. Clearly you both recognize that state of mind. I consider you a couple of the most rational, articulate, intelligent people I know (who are only coincidentally fellow dwellars). You are not optimists--ok. But I have a question for you.

What are you teaching your children? What do you tell them with your words and what do you show them with your actions? Defensive cynicism? Acquisitive greed? To move up by pushing others down?

Something else? I have paid attention to you over the years and I don't find these sentiments consistent with what I have seen you share about your parenting journey. Maybe you're not optimists, but I see hope in the next generation. This is what makes *me* an optimist--Dads like you.

Originally Posted by BigV

I love to hear you think, so take your time. I've already made note of what I seen that you've done. I am interested to hear what your "sincere" response will be and how much distance there will be between those words and your actions to this point.

For the record, when I have to choose between believing one's actions *or* believing one's words, I almost always choose actions.

Originally Posted by lookout123

I don't consider myself an optimist in any way shape or form. I think I'm a realist with a healthy dose of jaded cynicism.

What I try to teach my kids is as follows:
-Your life is your own, so make one you can be proud of
-Don't expect an organization to help you, that's what family and friends are for
-Help those around you as much as you can when they need it, part of real help is showing them how to do it themselves next time
-Shiny badges, nice suits, and perfect smiles aren't equivalent to good. Dirty clothes, surly attitudes, and obvious flaws aren't equivalent to bad.
-Don't ever live in fear, you can only die once and that is inevitable anyway so take appropriate risks while you can and live life to the full

I often quote the following ( I don't know who said it but no one would dispute you if you blamed Mark Twain or Oscar Wilde, though it sounds more like Ambrose Bierce)

"An Optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds, and the Pessimist thinks the Optimist is right."

That sums it up nicely for me, and I don't feel I fit in either camp but sympathize more closely with the pessimist.

I try to show my kids there is no Hope. Hope is profoundly passive and encourages thinking of oneself as a victim or powerless at best. There is only what you do and what you put effort into.



You can hope into one hand and shit into the other and see which one fills up first.

I try to show them that good manners never go out of style

I try to show them how to establish personal boundaries and to stick together with family and friends.

I try to show them how to think and use reason to solve problems, to be forthcoming and honest when they make mistakes or break things, etc. And to own up to their actions even when they might rather blame someone else.

In short, they'll make sucky politicians, lawyers, or wall street tycoons. But they will be people who you would want to have over for dinner or have in your corner in a fight.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

In short, they'll make sucky politicians, lawyers, or wall street tycoons. But they will be people who you would want to have over for dinner or have in your corner in a fight.

It sounds like you are raising them just fine. They'll be quite alright when we are all hiding in the mountains from the politicians, lawyers, and wall street tycoons. (listing all 3 seems redundant)

[Fair&Balanced]

I dont recall any liberal claiming that he/she is running for president because it is a calling from God, unlike the current crop of conservative Republicans.

Herman Cain: "God said, 'Not yet. I've got something else for you to do.' And it might be to become the president of the United States of America."

Michelle Bachman: "If I felt that's what the Lord was calling me to do, I would do it....When I have sensed that the Lord is calling me to do something, I've said yes to it....If I am called to serve in that realm I would serve"

Rick Santorum: "It really boils down to God's will. What is it that God wants? ... We have prayed a lot about this decision, and we believe with all our hearts that this is what God wants."

So if God telling them all to run, which one is He endorsing?