Question for the right wingers

[wolf]

Originally posted by DanaC
Why is your emphasis on changing the fertility of people unable to parent instead of tackling the system which "doesnt give a shit* ? Surely the answer should be to make the system "give a shit"

Had the parents given a shit to begin with, it wouldn't be necessary for the system to give a shit.

Originally posted by wolf


Had the parents given a shit to begin with, it wouldn't be necessary for the system to give a shit.

What about responsible, normal intelligence parents who have a child with down's syndrome, as just one example. And why do you want to let "the system" off the hook? Like it or not, there is always going to be a "system" of one sort or another. Do you advocate that it do as it pleases with no accountability to anyone? What's so damn responsible about that?

[jaguar]

Real mental disorders are a different catagory to asshats.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Like it or not, there is always going to be a "system" of one sort or another

Why?

[Griff]

Hhhmmmm... How do I weigh in with the lefties, without screwing up my credentials here? I've got it! Do you folks really want the Margaret Sangors of the world putting themselves into the position of controling who breeds in this country? We didn't have this arguement in the bad old days and the rascists here and in Germany won the day, however temporarily. What could be more intrusive than government controlling the breeding population, welcome to Red China. The limited government conservative is apparently extinct.

The supreme court test case for forced sterilization is Buck vs Bell check it out. There is doubt today that Carrie Buck was "feeble-minded". Justice Holmes dropped this sweet little plum for the Eugenics movement, "Three generations of imbeciles are enough." Since Miss Buck reportedly wasn't an imbecile, I'd say he was probably talking about Supreme Court Justices. It continues to amaze me that people blind themselves to the reality of what they argue for, when giving government the power to alter other peoples lives.

[Carbonated_Brains]

Why don't we just all treat pregnancy like a basic right afforded to all life-forms, and not a privilege?

Regardless of how infirm someone "seems", the basic instincts, bred through hundreds of years of human experience in this world, are survival and maternal protection. That goes a long way.

You can cite hundreds of examples of this and that, but I guarantee the number of infirm mothers who make horrible, uncaring mothers is a tiny minitory.

Oh, and if you're going to neuter people, you better not stop at the disabled, you better also hit the homeless, people who are poor, people who have off-main political ideas, and for good measure, complete arseholes.

Afraid you're on that list, Sidhe.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by Carbonated_Brains
Oh, and if you're going to neuter people, you better not stop at the disabled, you better also hit the homeless, people who are poor, people who have off-main political ideas, and for good measure, complete arseholes.

Afraid you're on that list, Sidhe.

Tread carefully Carbonated_Brains.

To which category do you assert that she qualifies?

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally posted by marichiko


What about responsible, normal intelligence parents who have a child with down's syndrome, as just one example. And why do you want to let "the system" off the hook? Like it or not, there is always going to be a "system" of one sort or another. Do you advocate that it do as it pleases with no accountability to anyone? What's so damn responsible about that?

You're misunderstanding me. If an individual can take care of themselves, then they should be able to take care of another person. I am not advocating letting "the system" off the hook; I'm saying that the system is extremely overburdened, and the children in that system suffer because of it. I don't think that ANYONE should be able to breed rampantly. ANYONE. You shouldn't have more children than you can take care of; if you're not competent to take care of yourself, you shouldn't be allowed to put yourself in the position of taking care of someone else who may suffer from your incompetence; if you abuse children, you should not be able to breed little ready-made victims.

I don't think that the system should be allowed to do as it pleases with no accountability. However, the system is already overburdened. It's like filling up a five-gallon container with infinite amounts of water...it can only hold so much, and the rest goes right over the edge and gets lost. You try having 100+ families that you, as ONE person, have to keep track of...a single person can only do so much.

Let's just lose the word "sterilization" for a minute, and replace it with ENFORCED BIRTH CONTROL. What's wrong with that? Would you let your 13-year-old have a child? Of course not. Why? Because you know she's not mature enough to take care of a child. She may be old enough to be subject to sexual desire, and may be physically old enough to breed, but she's not competent to take care of a helpless infant.

Well, most, if not ALL, profoundly retarded people are mentally below the intelligence and emotional maturity level of a teenager. If your teenager isn't mature enough to take care of a child, what makes you think a profoundly retarded person IS? Just because the body is mature doesn't mean the mind is. Some of these people (according to a few friends I have who work in the state school) have to be put in diapers because they can't understand or remember toilet-training. How are they going to understand taking care of a baby?


"Oh, and if you're going to neuter people, you better not stop at the disabled, you better also hit the homeless, people who are poor, people who have off-main political ideas, and for good measure, complete arseholes."


I'm not saying someone who is DISABLED should not be able to have children; I'm saying that profoundly retarded people should be on enforced birth control. There's a difference. And if the arseholes are abusing their children, yes, I think they should be straight-up STERILIZED. People bitch and complain about how murderer A and serial rapist B had such HORRIBLE childhoods, full of abuse...yet they have no problem with letting the parents of murderer A and rapist B have MORE children to abuse....then they bitch that SOMEBODY should've DONE something....

And you're just being absurd with the rest.


Sidhe

[Carbonated_Brains]

Troubleshooter - the arshole bit.

But that's just my opinion.

[Radar]

Nobody has any claim to anyone else's body what-so-ever, not even a fetus (parasite) inside of it. Government has no authority to tell anyone whether or not they must or must not have children. But if you can't afford and you have them, neither you, nor your children is entitled to reach into the pockets of others through force (government = force) to pay for their education, healthcare, food, shelter, or clothing.

No amount of your percieved needs or desires entitles you to steal from another person no matter how little you have or how much they have.

All people should be encouraged to help those in need, but nobody should be forced to. Charity begins and ends in the heart, not at the end of a loaded gun.

If you're starving, sick, old, cripple, uneducated, and cold from living outside, you are still not entitled to steal from others. You are free to ask for help and others are free to give it to you, but you needs don't entitle you to anything.

Man it's strange reading these boards these days. I only get a few posts with actual content. The rest are blocked because I've put the truly ignorant people on my ignore list. Sometimes entire threads are filled with nothing but the message I get when someone is on the iggy list.

It's better that way though. The average intelligence of conversations has increased 10 fold thanks to the omission of posts by those who truly have nothing of value to offer any conversation. (Jaguar, Marichko, Sycamore, Lady Sidhe, etc.)

[Lady Sidhe]

Oooooh, we love you too, Rabid Radar.... You'll forgive me if I'm not insulted....

...oh...but he won't see this, will he, because I'm on his ignore list...

[Griff]

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
Oooooh, we love you too, Rabid Radar.... You'll forgive me if I'm not insulted....

...oh...but he won't see this, will he, because I'm on his ignore list...

Can you hear me now?

If I'm not on the list brother, you may want to consider that you're missing the whole point of the board when you ignore people. IMHO

[Lady Sidhe]

Sorry, I just couldn't help it...after my first month here, I SO don't get offended anymore....

[Griff]

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
Sorry, I just couldn't help it...after my first month here, I SO don't get offended anymore....

It's not about offending people, it's about being willing to bounce your ideas off other peoples and maybe revealing some truth in the process.

[Lady Sidhe]

I was referring to the fact that he felt the need to name names. I'm pretty sure it was intended as a poke at the people he named.